Thanks to all of you…
On glp1s… if I’m not mistaken, the only time these effect your muscle is if you are losing weight…
My weight is fairly stable, but having said that, I do fluctuate 2-3 pounds. I would guess that kind of fluctuation, if it doesn’t happen often (which it doesn’t… meaning, I”m not yo-yoing all the time) doesn’t have much of an effect on muscle… but I really don’t know and now that this has been shared with me, I’ll have a conversation with my new bff, Claude.
If you are on GLP1’s yes, you do lose muscle even if you don’t lose weight lol. It happened to me, and apparently different people are affected (by GLP1’s) differently but they destroyed my muscles and my strength. I lost way more muscle than fat btw, so yeah if you are taking them, I’d very much suggest you stop it but obviously it’s up to you. I think the supposed off label benefits claimed are way overblown especially for people that are not obese. I’d rather take an SGLT-2i (for off label use/benefits) if I were not obese and not pre or diabetic.
Also wondering @Beth if it was the same DEXA machine that was used for your second scan or a different one.
It is possible that two different machines will throw up two different results.
@RPS excellent point. Since my post, I have since realized, even though I intentionally went to the same place for that very reason, they have two scanners and I’m not sure which one I used last time! I’m going to see if they have it in their records.
For the record, my husband looks the same as he did last year, but he gained 8 pounds of muscle and lost 7 pounds of fat… so I think they put him on the better scanner!
Getting a dexa is not easy for me to do (over 2 hour drive away) so I’m thinking more seriously about getting the Withings Body Scan. They will come out with a new version within the next couple of months. I don’t want to spend the money, but I’m thinking at this point I should track this more often than yearly. I need to research and find out how accurately it shows real trends.
Individual error rates for dexa is 4-5%, so at 15% body fat by dexa , you could be 20% or 10% body fat . Things like hydration status, and physical activity prior to the scan will influence this. To this date, the gold standard is mri scan. My guess is that 1.2 lbs lean mass loss (not muscle loss ) is noise.
DING DING DING… I’m going with this!
Also, *bangs head on the wall, I know just enough to be dangerous… I was thinking lean mass was all muscle… but your comment had me look it up… ty…
Ok, perhaps I panicked for nothing… as I sit here downing yet another protein shake.
In your opinion, with that much variability, should I be tracking this at all if I’m doing the right things? Does this also mean the Withings body scan scale would be a waste of money too, if you know?
I see my relative lean mass and bone and it always puts me into a tailspin (I’m a small person with little bitty bones, so I’m always worried I might just vaporize in my older age)
For me, there is still value in tracking with a smart scale, so that you can tell where you’re going directionally. Not perfect, but you’ll have a better idea of where you stand over a 3 or 6 month period.
I’ve found my smart scale useful for weight loss (am I losing too much weight this week? ), and recomposition (am I adding fat, or just water weight? ).
Our scale broke and I bought the withings for the pulse wave velocity. The cheap one, can’t speak to the fancy ones. I love it for the weight and weight graph, which shows the last 5 days. There’s an app that shows all you want on your phone. I expected the PWV to be a joke, actually it shows my age as one or 2 years less than actual. It is less when I’ve had a hard workout. Consistently. Impressive.
Then I had the wreck, broke my collarbone in a couple places and 2 ribs and was knocked out for 15 minutes. Surgery to put in the plates, and got home and my age was now 3 years older than actual. What? A couple weeks later it dropped a year, then a week later it dropped another year, soon I was my own age and now 6 weeks after the accident I’m back to 1 or 2 years younger than my age. Why were my tubes stiffer? I suppose there was some construction going on. Why did they soften back up? I’d like to know. But to me the pulse wave velocity is quite a function for a guy with a questionable heart.
The grandkids were here and playing with it and the weight was way off. What did they do? No idea, but it’s better now. Payback I suppose for me breaking my grandparents things as a kid. I’ve moved it to my bedroom now where it won’t be touched.
@bicep, I’m also genuinely shocked it picked up a change pre and post accident!!!
And @qBx123Yk thanks for that, too… based on both of your reports, I’m going to ask for the Withings for my upcoming birthday… SOLD!
I wonder how having 1 or 2 copies of the ccr5d32 variant would effect this? Maraviroc supposedly interferes with ccr5 (developed because they noticed ccr5d32 protected wrt hiv). Is it the same mechanism wrt sarcopenia? Would having ccr5d32 protect against sarcopenia? Would the dosage be different if you have 1 copy (I do).
Beth, Did you say you’re taking 37.5 mg Maraviroc twice weekly? It’s likely still a bit early, but if you’ve noticed any results, let me know. I’ll be starting Maraviroc soon, but I’m still not sure about the schedule. It will either be your method or Agetron’s method of 75 mg EOD. However, I’m thinking about a compromise of 75 mg twice weekly just to simplify things. That would provide 3 different experimental methods and, who knows, maybe they’ll all work. My questions to the AIs seemed to indicate that a higher dose may work better for less frequent dosing. Hence, 75 mg instead of 37.5 twice weekly. But, I’ll probably do lower dosing to start with followed by CBC and CMP Panels in a few weeks.
Agetron, I sent the message above to Beth. But, I also want to know if you are still doing 75 mg Maravirox EOD and if you’re still satisfied with the results.
Thanks,
Jay
@Jay, I’m looking forward to learning about your experience!!! Keep us posted!
I started on 3/17. I was going to take 1/4 pill 2x per week, but after not feeling like Hulk on day 1, and after my Body Spec DEXA said I’m a toothpick and might blow away, I am now taking it 3x per week.
And no, I still don’t feel any different… *taps fingers ferociously on table while impatiently waiting
After next week, I will get labs to check liver values to make sure nothing has changed… if it hasn’t, I’ll be open to trying larger doses if it turns out that is the better decision.
In my effort to prioritize not off’ing myself (as @desertshores says), AI advised me to start on a lower dose which would be safer for my liver. I normally never even think of things like this, but someone earlier, maybe it was @Paul?, said after only a couple of weeks he saw his labs go in the wrong direction.
Yes, I am doing 75 mg, every other day still.
But, travel and crazy schedule, I am not getting the consistent workouts I had plan.
I am feeling good… just not moving forward as I had planned… hovering at best.
My experience with it for over one month is this: I definitely know 100% that it makes you stronger, but to do that you’ll have to take it daily and ideally at 75mgs. I am still experimenting but every time I take it this way like for a week or so I get noticeably stronger (been recovering my strength from severe loss of strength from GLP1 use). The problem though is the strength wanes slowly and when I rested for one week (wanted to see out of curiosity what happens), basically no Maraviroc at all for 7 days I felt as my strength was going back to my baseline. I don’t know about longevity or other benefits but for muscle health and strength it needs to be taken daily and at a decent dose IMO, I cut mine in half. I don’t think I have any side effects from it however I tend to be a bit more aggressive lately, and I’m afraid it is because of it. Since you’re a woman that may or may not mean much but I definitely don’t need to be more aggressive LOL. I haven’t checked my markers yet though i intend to do so in a month or so.
btw, the way I know it definitely makes me stronger is because I’m measuring it. I bought the grip strength meter and when i didn’t take Maraviroc for 7 days my strength on my main hand was 38kg (damn those fuc–ing GLP1 destroyed me) but after couple weeks of taking Maraviroc daily straight my strength jumped to 45kg. So, this is not a maybe, or I feel, or I think etc.,. this is 100% measured that it made me stronger, but I think it needs to be taken daily to see significant changes. I think it is a good idea that you started at a low dose initially but i doubt you’ll see a noticeable difference if you only take it 2-3 times per week. Perhaps it helps maintain muscle long term if taken 2-3 times per week but not necessarily gain muscle or strength. At least that has been my experience.
The mechanism is exactly the same. Unfortunately there haven’t been any studies done on sarcopenia in ccr5d32 carriers, but the expectation would be that you have some level of protection. Dosing wouldn’t be any different, but your expected effect size would be smaller. See my previous posts on dosing. Weekly or biweekly dosing would make sense.
I recall listening to this podcast couple of years ago or so, between some sort of gym bro host and his guest who was an expert in exercise physiology / strength training / sports medicine. It struck me that he said even the same DEXA device — let alone different ones — has a lot more internal variability than you’d think. I forget the exact number but it was strikingly high, maybe 20-25%? Perhaps interrogate your new BFF about it. So I’d say, don’t worry about it too much as long as your strength is improving. Perhaps double check your protein intake.
I’m pretty bullish on GLP-1s and will stick to my 2.5-3mg micro dose as long as I’m not getting obvious adverse effects. But I have some fat to lose. You might not… so YNMV. Oh and the latest Wyze scale is an excellent dupe for what you’re considering pulling the trigger on. I’m very happy with it!
I know you are the queen of sourcing gadgets, so I’m definitely going to check it out, thank you!
I mean this one:
