So, what's the deal with collagen?

what does yours taste like, mine is almost flavorless (but with a hint of a slightly bitter buttery flavor) and dissolves easily in hot water turning it slightly yellowish

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I agree with it was bitter. And warm from mixing with hot water.

The coffee flavor completely hides the. bitterness maybe because it already is a little acidic and bitter.

And, it dissolves in the hot coffee perfectly… so the hot coffee is normal. Not drinking hot bitter water - lol.

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My akg only has very slight bitter undertones, it is way more buttery than bitter. Could be your brand although I have no idea how arginine akg is supposed to taste, I always got akg from Bulk. I used to hate creatine, I always thought it had a revolting metallic taste until I tried creapure which is almost completely flavorless

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That’s scary to think why your previous creatine had a metallic taste! It’s always been flavorless for me (many different brands over the past approx 30 years), but I play it safe these days and only use Creapure as well.

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I notice adapalene is indicated for acne, is it also effective for wrinkles/tightening/anti-aging etc?

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Comparable efficacy of adapalene 0.3% gel and tretinoin 0.05% cream as treatment for cutaneous photoaging - PubMed (nih.gov)

It would be nice to see a comparison of adapalene 0.1% (the otc strength) vs tretinoin 0.025% (the prescription strength most commonly used for anti-aging purposes), but there’s no reason to believe they wouldn’t be similar or equivalent in efficacy.

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N=1: I have been applying Differen for the last four weeks.

Prior to that, I had been using one of the many topical solutions that contain niacinamide, vit C, HA, salicyclic acid, and a kitchen sink of other things, for about a year. This brought about a welcome reduction in overly darkened areas. Also greatly improved skin smoothness, and seemingly, tensile strength. Also, it seems that this stuff functions well as a suncreen, as I don’t get nearly as tanned from time outdoors. Was pleased that for once, something added value when I was expecting nothing.

Regarding wrinkles, no perceptible difference.

Differin has offered additional improvements over those outlined above. Overall skin tone seems lighter, more even and dark areas even more reduced or almost eliminated. I actually got a couple small new dark spots, but overall an improvement. Downside - It has caused a lot of skin flaking, and to maintain smoothness, skin moisturizer must be applied. I can only occasionally apply my original topical solution, as the induced stinging get worse with continued use.

Regarding wrinkles: I have plenty and they are not going away. Actually seem more pronounced. It may be due to lighter skin tone contrasting with the ‘shadow’ associated with a wrinkle, I dunno. Or maybe ‘fine lines’ are reduced making the remaining prominent wrinkles stand out. But if there’s been any reduction in wrinkles, the overall effect has not been consequential, at least in my case.

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Interesting that your retinal detachment happened at the same time when you used Rapa. Some 3 years ago, when my intervals between Rapa doses were shorter, I suddenly developed floaters in both eyes and was checked for retina detachment (not found). I increased intervals between doses and in couple months all got resolved. Floater disappeared and never came back. I connected it with Rapa over dosing. Not sure if it was the case.

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My rational mind tells me it’s unlikely rapa was involved directly in the detachment, since I’d think we’d have seen a signal for this by now, especially given the much higher doses given to medical patients over the years, but the scary part for me is/was that we know rapa can interfere with wound healing and the detachment happened the day after I took a 4mg dose, so it was definitely in my system during the emergency eye surgery and early healing process. The eye has recovered well, all things considered, but I still have a 10% chance of detachment in the other eye at some point in the future. The psychological trauma of the first detachment, and even the tiniest possibility that rapa was involved, has kept me away from it for the time being. The threat of losing vision, even in “only” one eye, is pretty scary.

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I have floaters driving me crazy too. Just thought I was getting old or something. Maybe it’s the Rapa.

Never would have put them together, thanks.

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It’s going to take a lot longer than 4 weeks (think in terms of several months at least), and a retinoid is only going to do so much for actual “wrinkles”. Retinoids are more likely to have a subtle effect on small “fine lines” over time and to help prevent or slow down further aging of the skin. Deeper wrinkles on the forehead, crows feet, etc are better treated IMO with skin-tightening procedures such as Fraxel laser, microneedling, and of course Botox/Dysport. I had an RF microneedling treatment to my face and neck last week and plan to keep doing this periodically for a while (since it’s free for me) and will be eager to see if it lives up to the hype. Since the backs of my hands are starting to get a bit “crepey”, I’m also going to have one hand treated so I can directly compare the two hands over time (a better experiment than doing half my face :laughing:)

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I take a teaspoon of collagen in my first cup of tea as well as taking hyaluronic acid. It seems sensible to have some good inputs for connective tissue and my results are good. However, i cannot determine a cause and effect as yet.

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Probably not reasonable to expect that an ointment is going to have a meaningful impact on my forehead wrinkles or my turkey feet (crow’s feet to small for valid analogy). More drastic measures are called for, at 70.

I was very satisfied with the improvements to ‘photoaging’ I got with the first product I used, just another ‘me to’ product, one out of dozens on Amazon. (Forgot to mention that it also included retinol.) I have some alternating dark and light strips on my cheeks, really mostly visible if I stretch the skin, that the first product partially reduced. Four weeks of adapalene completely eliminated them on one side, the other side is reduced as well, but not going completely without a fight, it seems. If they too disappear, then mission accomplished as far as I’m concerned.

Vanity, thy name is Leonard.

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Len, there are some related threads that may be of interest:

Here: How to Reverse Skin Aging

and Here: Rapamycin May Slow Skin Aging (Drexel U. Study)

here: DIY Rapamycin skin cream

and here: DIY Rapamycin Toothpaste and Flossing Paste

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You may find the resources below useful in the debate around Tretinoin or Differin. The sun is unavoidable in Australia so Differin 0.1 (Adapalene) is a solid option as it is significantly less effected by ultra-violet.

Efficacy and safety of adapalene gel 0.1% and 0.3% and tretinoin gel 0.05% for acne vulgaris: results of a single-center, randomized, double-blinded, placebo-controlled clinical trial on Mexican patients (skin type III-IV) - PubMed - Differin 0.3 is similar to Tretinoin 0.05 in terms of efficacy.

A comparison of adapalene gel 0.1% vs. tretinoin gel 0.025% in the treatment of acne vulgaris in China - PubMed - Differin 0.1 and Tretinoin 0.025 offer comparable efficacy, but Differin is less irritating

Comparison of adapalene 0.1% solution and tretinoin 0.025% gel in the topical treatment of acne vulgaris - PubMed - When comparing patients who had 75% or greater improvement in open comedones, Adapalene was shown to be significantly more effective than tretinoin

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FYI

This week I would like to share with you some fascinating research on collagen. We often think of collagen as a natural product to keep our skin, nails and hair strong and younger looking.

However On March 04, 2021, the MD Anderson News Release published a fascinating study on how collagen may play a protective role in slowing tumor growth and metastasis.

This recent study from researchers at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center supports the novel therapeutic approach that we may have greater success in treating cancer by adding collagen to the program.

To come to this conclusion, the research team created a mouse model in which collagen was genetically removed from these cells, called myofibroblasts. More than 50% of the total collagen was absent in the tumor microenvironment.

With collagen reduced, pancreatic cancer growth accelerated and the overall survival of the mice significantly decreased, suggesting that collagen plays a vital role in blocking cancer progression. The study also suggests collagen can prevent cancer metastasis by keeping dormant tumor cells asleep.

Collagen as many know also supports tissues, bones, skin, hair, and eyes. Helps reduce and prevent premature wrinkles. Improves and helps digestion, reduce joint pain and increase bone density. And to top it off collagen is good for your heart.

To find out more about the collagen CLICK HERE

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When I read that collagen can reduce the growth of Cancerous cells grows, I think of the extracellular matrix. One speculation is that a healthy ECM might make it harder för cancer cells to grow. And Collagen is the most abundant fibrous protein within the interstitial ECM and constitutes up to 30% of the total protein mass of a multicellular animal.

The extracellular matrix is a large network of proteins and other molecules that surround, support, and give structure to cells and tissues in the body. The extracellular matrix is also involved in repairing damaged tissue. Abnormal changes in the extracellular matrix may lead to the development of certain diseases, such as cancer.

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Here is a chart that shows the amino acid content of collagen. So, 33.7% of collagen is glycine. A recommended daily dose of collagen is 20-40 g. I take 11 g of collagen peptides daily in my coffee. Tastes like creamer so it’s a healthy exchange.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Percentages-of-amino-acids-in-human-collagen-I-Amino-acid-composition-of-a-collagen_fig1_351426852

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So, collagen is not one thing–there are varying types and souces. It can be derived from animals, fish skin, and even eggshells, and the resulting amino acid mix will likely vary accordingly. If you want to know what’s going into you, I’d get more specific on your particular source (which likely still will vary, since it’s coming from a variable source) before concluding the proportions.

That is, what are you consuming?

The link you give explores what’s in the human body (“Percentages of amino acids in human collagen”), which is not necessarily the same as what you’re consuming. (Unless you have a source for collagen that is, ahem, canibalistic, in which case, maybe? :smiley: )

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You can use it as a rough estimate.