Just ran into this article - and it makes me wonder if part of the benefits provided by rapamycin is similar to that provided by caloric restriction, with regard to sleep and metabolism and temperature:
The calorie-restricted regime seemed to cause some interesting effects. In the second year of the study, those eating fewer calories showed a dramatic drop in their night-time metabolic rates, and a small but significant drop in their night-time body temperature. “Metabolism measured during sleep was reduced by 10 per cent,” says Redman.
Less cell stress
Analysing blood samples revealed that these people also experienced a 20 per cent drop in cellular oxidative stress – damage to cells caused by the byproducts of metabolism. DNA and cell damage caused by oxidative stress are thought to be key hallmarks of ageing.
Redman thinks that a low-calorie diet may push the body to have a lower resting metabolic rate. This may be an evolutionary mechanism to save energy when food is scarce, as is seen in animals that hibernate.
Interesting article, but if you look into the study they only measure energy expenditure during sleep due to calorie restriction… which one would expect to see less energy expenditure in general in a CR group.
Also in the paper it states
“The goal for the intervention was adherence to a mathematically predicted weight loss trajectory that reached 15.5% below baseline weight after one year of intervention followed by maintenance of this weight over the second year”.
“The food provision was used to educate on portion size, energy content and anticipated diet changes necessary to maintain 25% CR with different types of dietary patterns. The behavioral intervention included delivery of a structured curriculum in regular group and individual meetings with interventionists (clinical psychologists and nutritionists) from a standardized treatment manual developed specifically for the study”
When I hear this. I immediately think that the reason we see the changes in the metabolic rate in sleepEE and in 24hr EE is because the individuals are just eating less and living a healthier lifestyle in general. They also dont measure Sleep EEG in general, so they may see a decrease in night time metabolic rates, but who knows what their actual sleep patterns looked like or if they were even in sleep and just resting being sedentary on a diet that is already calorie restricted…
Also I do not understand how we see such a great discrepancy in sleep EE but no significance in differences for 24hr EE groups.
Also when they measure at Y1, is it before they do the calorie restriction or after? Because you never get a baseline sleep EE since they do it after calorie restriction is achieved…
Lots of issues with the actual study.
I am not currently taking trazodone, but when I did I took 50mg ~1/2hr before sleep. This shortens the time it takes you to go to sleep. More than 50mg is not required IMO.
Since I have been taking rapamycin my weight has been quite steady. The trazodone had no effect my weight.
I am 45 and I always have difficulty sleeping more than 6.5 hours per night on average. But for several nights after a dose of Rapamycin, I can’t sleep more than 5 hours a night. It’s brutal.
I was taking 6mg weekly, stopped. Now my plan is to work my way up to 6mg every 9-10 days. However, on Monday morning I took only 1mg and I haven’t had a good night’s sleep for three nights. With sleep issues though, you never know the real cause.
Also when I took 6mg/week I had aphthous ulcers a few times, zits, and even a zit or something in my ear canal that was very unpleasant. I’m starting to wonder if it’s worth it.
Wow - thats a really extreme reaction. Is it possible that something you are eating, supplementing with, or drinking, is increasing the bioavailability?
I’ve had more trouble sleeping when doing “extended” fasts, than when on rapamycin. My extended fasts are not that long, they usually last 36-40 hours.
I don’t think there are any drug or supplement interactions, but it is very likely that my sleep issues are related to stress, grief and other factors. But when I was taking 6mg it did feel like there was a correlation between the dose and a few difficult nights.
I put a link in another thread to the idea that autophagy interferes with circadian proteins. Hence when rapa is doing its job of encouraging autophagy it is likely to cause difficulties with sleep.
What surprised me is that those who take Rapamycin often blame any diviation from “normal” on Rapamycin without taking into consideration very many other molecules that they ingest every day. Each new pimple or rash, headache or insomnia, leg cramps, etc. , all blamed on Rapamycin. Millions of people suffer from insomnia and they are not on Rapamycin. We need to keep in mind that the right dose, which is very individual, is the key. The right dose is the dose that does not produce negative side effects. Rapa is not one size fits all. I do not have negative side effects if I take the right (for me) dose.
Out of curiosity I just checked my sleep log the night of my last rapa dose, estimated at 30mg. My sleep score was evaluated as “optimal” by my Oura app, and was much better than my normal sleep score.
Of course that doesnt mean anything more than for me rapa doesnt seem to interfere with sleep.
Wow - so what time of the day did you take the 30mg (or equivalent)? And your sleep measure was just as good or better than the previous days when you had not taken rapamycin - is that right?
Please post a summary graph of the week if you can…
“Wow - so what time of the day did you take the 30mg (or equivalent)? And your sleep measure was just as good or better than the previous days when you had not taken rapamycin - is that right?
Please post a summary graph of the week if you can…”
I took my tri-weekly rapamycin on Sunday morning 3/5.
Sorry, but I dont know how to send a graph from the Oura app. Here is an excel spreadsheet for the week before my rapa dose.
I started on biohacking with the objective of improving my sleep. I use a fitbit as a tracker and did also use the E500. I found that fitbit does not pick up short naps say of a duration under 30 mins. The E500 sometimes did. I also have used Muse EEG which is really good at picking up sleep, but a real nuisance to wear (or moreso to keep on your head when sleeping).
I am of the view that one thing that happens during sleep is that the pineal gland provides neurons with a higher level of melatonin than is provided to the rest of the body (via the Third Ventrical of the cerebro spinal fluid). Hence I think that one good thing about a high serum melatonin is that it assist the brain in coping with less sleep.
However, my key functional test for sleep is whether I can work at a high performance level for the next day and particularly without having any need for a nap at around 2pm. If I don’t sleep well then I can cope without a nap, but it is a useful thing for cognitive function in the afternoon.
I would not say I have resolved my insomnia (which is mainly a sleep maintenance issue rather than a sleep latency issue), but often I sleep sufficiently to enable me to be fully functional the next day without a nap (such as today).
