New Study Funded: Towards reversing periodontal disease using Rapamycin

This is much like the delivery system of fluoride. Rapamycin dental floss to get deep in the pockets? Mouthwash? Concentrated dentist office treatments?

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With regards to Alzheimers disease (classic amyloid plaque defined dementia), there is a theory that amyloid isan anti-microbial peptide in response to microbe induced inflammation, and oral microbes are a major source. As of 2022, the scientific community still does not understand the APP (Amyloid Precursor Protein)/Amyloid Plaque functions in humans!

There have been many studies in various animal models (especially human transgenic AD expressing and/or APOE4 expressing) that show strong improvement in cognition with Rapamycin treatment.

So any Rapamycin study that perhaps captures cognitive as a primary/secondary endpoint would further this pathway validation.

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So - my question to everyone here is, who’s going to be first to make their own Rapamycin toothpaste and try this out and report back?

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Sounds like a very tricky endeavour vs systemic delivery to oral tissues.

What’s vehicle for the Rapamycin? Surely not toothpaste…is there any absorption?

And how long to expose the gums?

Not to mention the wastefulness of all that Rapamycin going down the drain on delivery/rinse.

I also wonder about canker mouth sores with very high topical concentration of Rapamycin, although I think they derive from systemic exposure.

I mean it’s possible, but would require some CRESTAMYCIN development. :wink:

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You’d want to treat this disease systemically. Periodontitis is an inflammatory disease of the alveolar bone. It occurs in areas that can’t be reached easily with at home care products. This is why your hygienist digs deep beneath the gum line.

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Me. I’m going to mix up a small batch at 0.01%. I picked this percentage based on the higher level in Dr. Green’s skin recipe of about 0.016%. Since we are talking about mucus membranes in the mouth, I figure absorption would be better, so lower the %. If I am doing my math right today, a 3.5oz (almost 100,000mg) tube of toothpaste would need 10mg rapamycin

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To Jared’s comment…Yes and no. if you have severe disease need to get it scraped first. That is traditional therapy…have had it done twice…painful and expensive and the current consensus is really does not work without other adjunct therapy. Systemic antibiotic treatment post-op works and should be done or the cleaning wounds get back to where they were. May need to be long term.

However in mild cases topical therapy works. In my case worked better than the surgery. Chlorhexidine works but over long term stains the teeth. Hyaluronic acid is great. I use it and it works. Use the cosmetic product. It does not stick very well but is viscous so does hang around long enough. come in a gal as well but I cannot find it recently.

Generally the gum problems are right below the gumline and there are pockets, to the topical stuff get in. A Rapa product would be great.

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On making one’s own gum treatment. I don’t think you need the toothpaste and certainly no “brushing”. Just massage the skin creme into the gumline. That is the way the current topicals are applied and they work.

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FWIW…

From;
https://www.sigmaaldrich.com › deepweb › assets › sigmaaldrich › product › documents › 289 › 717 › r0395pis.pdf

Rapamycin can dissolve in chloroform ( 5 mg/ml),² in methanol (25 mg/ml)², and in DMSO (25 mg/ml)².

Used DMSO as the solvent and carrier, will transport through cell membranes.

r0395pis.pdf (59.3 KB)

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It would seem most of us are ingesting it systemically already, right? My use of rapa (20mg every two weeks) began approx. The same time I was diagnosed with early stage periodontal disease. I was super stoked to read the studies, and have not had bleeding gums or other symptoms since starting. Dental care can be so expensive in the USA that this can only be a good thing and I look forward to my next exam to see if it actually is helping.

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Yes - I think virtually everyone here has been focused on ingesting the rapamycin orally. It would seem, however, to be potentially beneficial to do both - oral, and topically inside the mouth via some sort of rapamycin toothpaste, mouthwash, floss, etc.

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@KERRY_BELL posted this in another forum, and I thought people here would like to see it:

Im 75 yo., and my gums have not receeded which is usually what happens when your get older. They are no different than when I was 30. Of course, brushing, flossing and Rapamycin weekly. I truly believe rapa has helped.

[been taking rapamycin for] 5 years, March 2017. Dr. Greens 2nd. patient.

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Wouldn’t transcutol still be the best agent to dissolve the rapamycin in?

I have transcutol, and used it with to make the rapamycin skin cream I tried for 6 months (minor improvement, not sure if its worth it), but it also seems like it could be used for topical application on the inside of the mouth.

Does anyone here have experience with DSMO? I’ve not tried it, but have heard that it may have some unenjoyable smell or something like that.

DMSO The perfect solvent.
It will carry any compound dissolved through skin into blood stream and or into cells.

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Joseph - have you used DSMO before? What for, and are there any downsides from what you’ve heard?

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Yes, both topical and intravenous.

Attached is a gift.

Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO) in Trauma and Disease

dimethyl-sulfoxide-dmso-in-trauma-and-disease-2015 (1).pdf (3.6 MB)

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Perio disease will be evaluated 2 ways. Radiographically (x-rays) and clinically (probing depths). A reduction in pocket depth would be a start and then the arrest of bone loss would be the other. I doubt we’d see any regeneration of alveolar bone but sometimes magical things happen.

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Didn’t we see bone regeneration here, in this past study with rapamycin?

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Recession isn’t always perio disease related. In fact it’s usually a result of bruxism. In perio disease you don’t usually get recession of the gums, just recession of the bone which then results in increased pocket depths.

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It depends if they were measuring pocket depths (vertical bone loss) or bone heights (horizontal bone loss). You can get bone regeneration of pockets just by treating the infecting bacteria, but to date, as far as I’ve seen, horizontal bone loss is permanent unless you add it surgically and even then it’s difficult to get more than a millimeter or two. If rapamycin could regenerate horizontal bone loss then that would indeed be a huge game changer.

When I look at that CT I see bone regeneration up to the level of the most coronal point of bone. But not much beyond. So to me that’s not enough to say it regenerates horizontal bone loss. It looks to me like it regenerates pockets. But maybe they need to treat for longer.

One of the treatments for horizontal bone loss is called a vertically repositioned flap. Basically you reposition the gums down closer to the bone level to reduce pockets. It’s really done because there’s no hope for increasing horizontal bone once it’s gone.

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