Looking on the site for what the “standard” dose people are taking but only found the info from 2022. I keep changing my dose every now and then. I was at 6mg/wk but then went to 5mg/wk with 10oz GFJ every 2 wks because i kept coming across the blood barrier info. (I’m 68 now). But on the GFJ dose, at day 2 I feel “washed out” but it goes away after 3 or 4 days so thinking of going back to 6mg/wk.
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I would think the ideal dose would vary by individual. Also timing is not always weekly.
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thx, yes I know. I was just wondering if there was an update to the survey. I liked the 2wk regimen because i think it gave me a little break between doses. maybe I could try going down in actual dose to 3 or 4 plus GFJ instead of the 5mg +GFJ. But then I wonder if that dose would be enough to get past the “blood barrier” I keep reading about…
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We really don’t know. The Stanfield study made some people re-think the popular 6mg once weekly dose though.
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well that’s kind of what I’m after. what is the current thinking on dose for a weekly, biweekly, regimen etc. I don’t want to just shoot in the dark…
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It’s super individual if you want to get into the weeds on this. However, various doses were developed based upon various studies. There’s the Mannick derived 5mg everolimus a week (plus there were other arms of different dosages in that study slightly less effective, including 20mg a week), the 6mg once a week was a big cohort of Dr. Green’s who seemed to do OK on that dose. The PEARL trial seemed to imply that the lowest dose where observed effects occured were 3mg a week for the women (and still none for the males - speculated that it’s too low a dose). There are various studies where 1mg daily was a dose that worked by some standards (for neuro ApOE4 etc.). Matt Kaeberlein went through various phases including 8mg weekly for a period of months (3-4?) with a break of a few months and then back on the program, alternating.
I personally started off with 6mg, and now I’m trialling 8mg once a week (a couple of months so far), based on the Arizona study design of 8mg weekly which was deemed to have minimal side effects at that dose. I don’t have planned vacations from the regimen, though they do happen as life happens (surgery etc.). I can’t say much so far - nothing particularly notable, though I will be undergoing a battery of tests in a couple of months.
If you are confident about accounting for confounders, you might simply experiment. I’M NOT A DOCTOR AND NOT OFFERING MEDICAL ADVICE, just my ponderings: if you’re a woman try starting with 3mg a week. If you’re a man, perhaps jump to 6mg a week and see how you feel, how it impacts your biomarkers: liver panel, lipid panel, glucose control, inflammatory markers, kidney panel. And emphasis: you must do blood tests - otherwise you’re flying blind - get those panels I mentioned every 3 months or so to begin with, and once you see things stabilize you can drop off to 1-2 times a year. Are you experiencing side effects - mouth ulcers, skin issues, gastrointestinal disturbances (including diarrhea - which may happen at higher doses). If so, try adjusting the dosage - although many report that for example after experiencing a mouth ulcer 1-2 times they don’t get them anymore even though they changed nothing about the protocol or dose of rapa - the body adjusted. The only negative sides for me are a handful of pimples - face/scalp which are not too hard to handle, as they come and go, sometimes absent for weeks. I personally am not stopping rapa because of these skin issues. Watch for lung function - this might be an issue at higher doses, but worth monitoring at any dose. Watch out for bacterial infections - stop rapa. Obvious stuff like wound healing, surgery - stop rapa.
That’s about it. I personally don’t bother with GFJ, as I find it too much of a confounder - I can’t be confident that I’ve normalized the dose of juice and don’t wish to hammer my liver, but YMMV, to each their own. My protocol - first thing in the morning every Saturday, then no food for the next 90 minutes - 2 hours, with a cup of Japanese matcha tea. That’s it. I don’t try to take it with fatty stuff like sardines, EVOO etc. - again, I like to take it in isolation so I can monitor it and nothing else impacting the drug. That way I know I’m getting consistent effects not modified by GFJ liver enzymatic effects or fat etc. - pure rapa and nothing more.
Finally, I think testing for sirolimus levels in the blood are mandatory - otherwise you have no idea how YOU are processing rapa. You want to find your trough. Get a test at 50 hours, then 72 hours then 24 hours before your next dose to see where the bottom is.
Keep in mind: it is super easy to mistake various symptoms for the effect of rapa, whereas it’s often something else entirely and coincidental. Experiment if unsure - that’s the beauty of rapa - it’s not really a “dangerous” drug, if you have unwelcome symptoms, stopping it gets rid of them, it’s not like you are sustaining permanent damage. Of course as I said at the start of this post: everyone is in their own medical situation - if you have cancer or had cancer recently, that might be a reason to perhaps be cautious with rapamycin etc. Good luck!
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thx. that’s some good food for thought… and no, it’s not medical advice! I’m male, turning 68 in a few months. I haven’t had any side effects that I notice other than when i am dosing 5mg w/GFJ I felt washed out/ run down the next day but that went away after a day or two. This week I went back to plain 6mg and that’s it; which I was doing before the GFJ dose experiment. I’m re-thinking the GFJ because i also take a med that it multiplies the dosage. (Cialis for BPH). I need to see if I can find a lab that tests for sirolimus in my area. “watch for lung function” What do you mean and what do you watch for?
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I don’t think there are any hard and fast rules right now. Most people probably still default to the once weekly dose, but I’m currently on a dose every 3 weeks and it’s working fine. In fact I just booked a blood test for tomorrow to test my sirolimus levels (among other things). Labcorp will test - and you can purchase from Goodlabs.com for a low price:
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Just purely symptomatic. Increase in coughing, congestion in the lungs, shortness of breath and the like. Rapamycin at high doses can induce interstitial lung disease (ILD), but I’m speculating that there may be individuals who respond this way at what most of us would consider “lower” doses, just a danger to be aware of. Being sensitized to this side effect means you won’t ignore symptoms - fortunately ILD resolves upon rapamycin discontinuation. A formal diagnosis is through lung imaging tests.
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We have mTOR for reasons and turning it low will have effects.
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As if it weren’t already complicated. Taking rapamycin with GFJ significantly alters the uptake and clearance profile over taking it with a fatty meal or taking a high dose. I’m not certain whether this alteration is beneficial, harmful, or neutral. Also, I think we have established that assimilation varies significantly across brands based on whether and how the raw Chinese product is processed.
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I don’t think it affects the half life just the bioavailability. I accept predicting the effect is hard. Hence i started with GFJ at a low dose and built up.
interesting-3 wks. at what dose may i ask? I went to 2 weeks because I went to a higher dose to try to get past the “blood barrier” I’ve read about…
I checked out goodlabs. the less expensive lab is too far from me to make it worthwhile but there is a Labcorp in the next town. A sirolimus test is like $17 (plus a $12 blood draw fee I think) but that seems reasonable. What are some of the other recommended markers to check? I can get most of the normal ones from my PCM (A1C, chol, testosterone, etc) and their lab but the ‘weird’ ones people check because of sirolimus use; I can’t get with my PCM.
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I suggest you check out these blood tests - the Levine phenotypic calculations require the same regular blood tests I like to get at a minimum: Blood Tests and pricing for Levine Phenotypic Calculation , and Bortz Biological Age Calculation
Some other good blood test threads:
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Sudiki, fyi, incase a quest is closer to you, goodlabs also offers them as an option and they are usually less expensive for most things, goodlabs even points that out. There is a dropdown menu to choose quest if you didn’t notice it.
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thx but quest was the one that is too far from me to be useful. and the cost is 17 for sirolimus at quest, 16 at labcorp. also quest wants 12 for blood draw, labcorp is 8
FYI, Goodlabs provides a “free” Bortz Biological age calculator, based on uploaded labs.
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Not wanting to deter too far… but I strongly feel the underpowered Stanfield Study only muddied the waters and God love him… and as we say in Missouri bless his heart (not a compliment), but his monetary sacrifice was IMHO a waste of his and wife’s money. They tried… it required a lot more.
Granted, nobody expected a wealthy reputable pharmacist, Ken Coit to ante up $12 million dollars for a single rapamycin human trial with our respected Matt Kaeberlein advising the study. But, he has… and real, undeniable and thorough results will finally be available. Albeit, you must wait 6 years.
As Blagosklonny quoted… “If you wait until you are ready, it’s almost certainly too late.” Seth Godin
I know my early adoption of rapamycin, now 5+ years ago is paying out in Aces… at 6 mg per week.
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Hey @Agetron,
Post Stanfield study, the conversations here led me to switching from 8mg weekly to 16mg every other week, so I ask….
Do you know if Kaeberlein still feels weekly is optimal, or is he now perhaps on the fence regarding frequency. I realize he takes very long breaks, so his protocol might not be relevant to me… my older self hates even skipping a dose post vaccine!
PS, I do not have enough muscle, so I’m in the gaining and not maintaining phase.
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