I was referring to where Desert shores says, for Dasatinib: "NIBA Healthcare India· Price : 30 USD per Pack of 60 Tab · Shipment Charges.
Vs. $135 from Laxmarayant for same quantity.
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Got it. thought you were talking about Maraviroc.
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Okie dokie,
I think I’m finally caving on this one. I see it’s $224 at good rx for 30 pills 150mg each. I’ll see if my doc will give me an rx.
According to AI, I’d be taking 1/4 of a pill EOD, but the discussion here makes it seem it should only be twice per week?
I take it the potential liver effects are the main thing to watch out for. Does anyone have a recommendation on how often we should check labs? I typically test every 3-4 months. Maybe after 30 days of trying it?
Also, because my PT tracks exactly how much I can do, perhaps I might be able to be of use and do some good measuring to report back. If so, what would you like to see, before and afterwards? How much I can bench? Or? I hate the hang test, so don’t ask me to do that! (It hurts my fingers! 
My hope is extra strength translates to extra stress on my bones.
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Grip strength and machines are good - things that don’t depend so much on technique.
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Yes… it takes a second to figure out the form… and gripping method… I suggest practicing a bit… to get the feel. Measure each arm.
Average grip strength for women aged 40–50 is approximately 48–63 lbs, decreasing slightly to 43–61 lbs for ages 50–59.
My male grip was 95 and 110. Considered Good.
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Do we have consensus for prophylactic dosing for the elderly.?
Based on my own measurements from the past, I don’t think I would be taking it if I was under 60 years of age.
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Actually, I do have one of those little grip strength gadgets that I forgot about! Good idea to whip that out.
Machines make sense, but there aren’t any where I workout. I could go to a different gym I have access to and do a before and after. Would you suggest just picking a weight that seems hard and counting my reps to failure… then doing that same thing a month later?
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This is a really good question. Since what this drug does is purge senescent cells, the key thing to understand is when do senescent cells start to ramp up, and by how much. So I tried to get an idea from Gemini on this issue. It seems it’s cell-type specific, and probably quite specific to the individual and their history (do you have a history of obesity, etc. - which ramps up senescent cell load much faster than otherwise), etc.
Bottom Line Up Front: The accumulation of senescent cells in human skeletal muscle is compartmentalized and nonlinear. Unlike adipose tissue, which shows robust, generalized senescence accumulation with age, skeletal muscle senescence is primarily restricted to the stem cell niche (Satellite Cells) and Fibro-Adipogenic Progenitors (FAPs).
Quantitative Reality:
- Myofibers (90% of tissue volume): Do not undergo replicative senescence. They exhibit “post-mitotic dysfunction” (DNA damage accumulation), but rarely express classic p16INK4a or SA-beta-gal markers unless the subject is obese or physically inactive.
- Progenitors (Satellite Cells/FAPs): Exhibit a “hockey stick” trajectory. Accumulation is negligible (<1%) until approximately age 65-70, followed by an exponential rise that drives regenerative failure (sarcopenia) and fibrosis.
Critical Confounder: Recent data explicitly decouples chronological age from senescence in muscle. High BMI and metabolic dysfunction are stronger drivers of p16INK4a expression than age alone.
Here is the full response:
Muscle Senescence_ A Systematic Review.pdf (121.1 KB)
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It’s probably better to do something that you already do regularly so you know what your usual progression looks like. What about push-ups or body weight squats?
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Yes, push ups… pull ups… a lat machine or chest machine (pec deck)…
Maximum weight for 10 repetition.
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@Agetron @AgentSmith I’m on it, thanks!
I am still continuing to get stronger all the time (YAY ME), so I won’t know exactly how to tease it all out, but my PT is hyper-aware of everything I can do, even when my form improves he makes comments (I’m oblivious), so I’ll be sure to include him on this
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Yes Jay, I have osteoporosis so anything I can do for bone density to protect me long term is a big goal. It’s holding steady and not getting worse, whew.
I have a very tiny frame so my bones are naturally very small. Wrists of a toddler
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Beth,
I highly recommend the Dr. Doug Show on YouTube. I’ve found Dr. Doug Lucas to be one of the most trustworthy single sources of information on bone health and longevity. It did take watching several of his videos to fully understand the overall framework of his ideas, which are based on both clinical experience and research, but I didn’t mind the time investment. Like most YouTubers, he does promote products and services, and I have no issue with that.
The core of his message emphasizes nutrition, sleep, impact exercise, and appropriate supplementation, including hormones, peptides, and essential vitamins and minerals. Earlier this morning, I compiled a list of exercises with ChatGPT, and Dr. Doug recommends many of the most high-impact movements on that list. Over the past six months, I’ve incorporated several of the more impactful exercises into my routine, while being careful to progress gradually and avoid injury.
| Rank | Activity | Primary Loading Type | Bone Stimulus Strength | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Heavy compound resistance training (squats, deadlifts, presses) | High compressive + tensile |
|
Gold standard; progressive overload is key |
| 2 | Plyometrics (jump squats, box jumps, bounding) | High-rate impact |
|
Very strong stimulus; short ground contact time matters |
| 3 | Sprinting | High-rate ground reaction forces |
½ |
Excellent for hip and femur |
| 4 | Olympic lifts (cleans, snatches) | Explosive multi-joint loading |
½ |
High strain rate; advanced skill required |
| 5 | Loaded carries (farmer’s walks) | Axial + grip tensile load |
|
Excellent spine and hip stimulus |
| 6 | Step-ups with weight / weighted lunges | Multi-planar loading |
|
Very practical option |
| 7 | Pull-ups / chin-ups | Upper body tensile load |
|
Good for humerus and forearm |
| 8 | Dead hangs | Sustained tensile load |
|
Modest but better than nothing |
| 9 | Brisk uphill walking | Moderate ground force |
|
Helpful for older adults |
| 10 | Flat walking | Low impact | |
Maintains more than builds |
| 11 | Swimming | Minimal skeletal loading | |
Cardiovascular benefit, little bone stimulus |
| 12 | Cycling | Minimal weight-bearing | |
Poor bone stimulus |
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Jay, I appreciate this. Good to see I do most of the things on your list.
(Off to google what cleans and snatches are!I)
I actually do follow Dr Doug from your previous recommendation. I agree he is very good, but I find I don’t watch too many of his videos because he takes quite a bit of time to get to the useful parts (I get this is so he can get engagement). I just realized I can ask AI to hit the highlights for me!
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Yes! Just ask AI to research Dr Doug or whatever else and give a summary on what you want. These days I do that with news articles, too. It saves a lot of potentially wasted time.
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I had AI do estimate some adjustments of the mouse study results to better reflect what one should expect in human physilogy:
Human Effect Estimates Based on Actual Mouse Data
Muscle Mass (TA/BW ratio: +28.01% in mice)
| Scenario | Translation Rate | Expected Human Effect | Time to Achieve |
|---|---|---|---|
| Conservative | 20% | +5.6% | 2-3 years |
| Realistic | 30% | +8.4% | 2 years |
| Optimistic | 40% | +11.2% | 1.5-2 years |
Muscle Fiber CSA (+15.50% in mice)
| Scenario | Translation Rate | Expected Human Effect | Time to Achieve |
|---|---|---|---|
| Conservative | 20% | +3.1% | 2-3 years |
| Realistic | 30% | +4.7% | 2 years |
| Optimistic | 40% | +6.2% | 1.5-2 years |
Grip Strength (+15.79% in mice)
| Scenario | Translation Rate | Expected Human Effect | Time to Achieve |
|---|---|---|---|
| Conservative | 25% | +3.9% | 2-3 years |
| Realistic | 35% | +5.5% | 2 years |
| Optimistic | 50% | +7.9% | 1.5-2 years |
Endurance/Running Distance (+50.00% in mice)
| Scenario | Translation Rate | Expected Human Effect | Time to Achieve |
|---|---|---|---|
| Conservative | 20% | +10.0% | 2-3 years |
| Realistic | 30% | +15.0% | 2 years |
| Optimistic | 40% | +20.0% | 1.5-2 years |
Rate of Change Expectations
Mouse Study Rate
| Outcome | Change | Duration | Rate/Month |
|---|---|---|---|
| Muscle mass | +28.01% | 3 months | +9.3%/month |
| Fiber CSA | +15.50% | 3 months | +5.2%/month |
| Grip strength | +15.79% | 3 months | +5.3%/month |
| Running distance | +50.00% | 3 months | +16.7%/month |
Translated Human Rate (Realistic Scenario)
Applying both magnitude (×0.30) and time (÷8) adjustments:
| Outcome | Expected Human Rate/Month |
|---|---|
| Muscle mass | +0.35%/month |
| Fiber CSA | +0.20%/month |
| Grip strength | +0.20%/month |
| Endurance | +0.56%/month |
Cumulative Human Effects Over Time (Realistic Scenario)
| Timepoint | Muscle Mass | Grip Strength | Endurance |
|---|---|---|---|
| 6 months | +2.1% | +1.2% | +3.4% |
| 12 months | +4.2% | +2.4% | +6.7% |
| 18 months | +6.3% | +3.8% | +10.1% |
| 24 months | +8.4% | +5.5% | +15.0% |
Clinical Significance Assessment
Minimum Clinically Important Differences (MCID) in Sarcopenia
| Outcome | MCID | Conservative Est. | Realistic Est. | Clinically Meaningful? |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Appendicular lean mass | +0.5-1.0 kg (~2-3%) | +5.6% | +8.4% | Yes |
| Grip strength | +3-5 kg (~5-10%) | +3.9% | +5.5% | Borderline to Yes |
| Gait speed | +0.05-0.1 m/s | +3-5% | +4-6% | Borderline |
| 6MWD | +20-30 m (~5%) | +10% | +15% | Yes |
Assessment: Even conservative estimates suggest clinically meaningful effects for muscle mass and endurance outcomes, with grip strength being borderline but potentially meaningful.
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Excellent analysis - thanks! It’s easy to forget that mice only I’ve a few years, so a 3 month clinical trial is like a multi-year study in humans. It helps to set expectations correctly for people - this is likely a year long trial before you see measurable results, if successful.
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@fasterfour Thank you for doing this! Ooooohhh, I was thinking, what the heck, I’m up for a 3 month trial… I don’t know that I’m up for a year trial, but I’ll at least ask my doc what he thinks.
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Yes, likely a long haul if you’re looking for muscle benefits. Keep in mind though that the memory benefits seem to occur rapidly (single dose).
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