Berberine Supplement

@jay @Gary_Patrick

I added Endurance Products Dihydroberberine SR Berberine about a year ago. There is much literature on metformin like benefits to glucose, and additional lipids lowering. I have not seen any benefit in my lab panels nor any exercise blunting. I will probably not continue once I exhaust current supply.

I most definitively concur with Attia on preserving muscle strength as longevity intervention.

“This study confirms that measures of lower muscle strength, both quadriceps and grip, are strong and independent predictors of mortality in older adults. This association cannot be attributed to sarcopenia, as neither measure of muscle size attenuated the associations. In fact, lower muscle area by CT scan was the only measure of sarcopenia that was an independent predictor of mortality and this was only seen in the men. The strength–mortality association was not due to a higher level of inactivity or chronic illness in those participants with poor strength

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Given my long list of existing supplements and prescribed meds, I am going to hold off from Berberine for now.
Muscle strength is important for both lifespan and healthspan, functioning independently in everyday life, which becomes increasingly important as the calendar keeps moving along.

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Some good berberine information from NYT:

The Truth About ‘Nature’s Ozempic’

What experts know about berberine, the chemical compound purported to help induce weight loss.

https://archive.ph/LCWbu

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Has anyone tried blood sugar monitoring with/without berberine? I’m about to start a 2 week session and thought i might try it. Any suggested protocol?

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One thing to keep in mind when comparing the risks and benefits of berberine and metformin is that berberine has antimicrobial properties. Depending on one’s specific gut biome, the selective elimination of gut bacteria could prove to be beneficial or harmful. Speaking personally, berberine worked well maintaining my A1C in the normal range (it edged a slight bit above that range with no medication). Eventually, though, I returned to using metformin for this benefit for the above reason.

I’ve read things that are all over the place when it comes to berberine. I go one day from thinking it’s a miracle supplement to the next thinking I need to avoid it. I’ve taken it a lot but right now I’m not. I think Acarbose and Empagliflozin are enough.

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Found a mouse study from 2020 showing profound life extension from Berberine

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I would avoid using acarbose and metformin unless I have diabetes or prediabetes. Instead, I would use berberine, which is safer. Berberine selectively inhibits intestinal bacteria and promotes the growth of Akkermansia bacteria, as well as increasing the levels of Bifidobacterium and Lactobacillus

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Consumerlab recently did their yearly extensive testing of berberine, too. Natural Factors and Solaray came out on top (they didn’t test DoNotAge), and quite a few brands didn’t pass.

Also, this:

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I’d like to know why you think berberine is safer than Acarbose

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@Davin8r thanks. How did they pick the brands to test? They sound like disposable brand names used just for selling cheap on Amazon. Why not test the brands a reasonable person might buy? I used to pay for Consumer Labs but always found myself frustrated with the no value testing (rarely did they test the brand I was using). How do you make sense of it?

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ConsumerLab tests a combination of popular brands and brands their subscribers request via surveys. They can only test so many (funds are limited). As long as supplement passes, why stick to your favorite untested brand, especially if one or more of the brands than passed testing is cheaper?

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Here are the brands tested that I would not buy under any circumstances simply because the name is ridiculous:Earth Bare, Greabby Gummies, GreenPeople Formula, Satoomi, Vitamiscence, KoNefancy, BMVINVOL Formula, Deal Supplement, Genex Formulas, HivoNutra Formula, Nutriflair, Nutrivein, Sotalix, Thomas Remedies, Naomi Whittel, Toniiq, Vitalite Now, Sunergetic.

I removed only 5 names from the CR list as names that were not overly objectionable.

Only Now Foods was included as a brand that I would purchase without fear.

This is why I don’t pay for Consumer Labs.

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There are two ways to look at the supplement vs. drug evaluation;

  1. from the manufacturing standpoint, and
  2. from the research/clinical study & validation perspective.

Supplements have a the GMP requirement (good manufacturing practices), but in reality no regulating body (e.g. FDA) checks on this for any supplement company, so there really are no quality standards for supplements that are rigorously enforced. This is why you get the common suituation where supplements tested that are from Amazon frequently have none of the active ingredient, and may have other un-labeled ingredients. People will argue that the leading supplement companies seem to do a pretty good job at ingredient quality & manufacturing and that may be true, but its still not close to what a FDA-monitored drug company goes through in terms of quality control and record keeping.

The FDA tightly regulates the manufacturing process and reports for drugs (at least in the USA, much less so for foreign Pharma, as is outlined in this book: Book Exposes How Some Generic Drugmakers Ignored Safety And Committed Fraud : NPR
And, about 65% of US drugs come from India or China. Generally the generic drugs imported into the US seem to be reasonably good, but quality doesn’t seem to be as high as US and Europe manufactured. Geographic concentration of pharmaceutical manufacturing: USP Medicine Supply Map analysis | Quality Matters | U.S. Pharmacopeia Blog

On the research / clinical study side, there isn’t much research done by the supplement companies in part because there is no patent protection and lower margins for supplements. The research that is done on supplements is generally done by academic institutions, and they don’t do any clinical studies. All in all the supplement research is pretty minimal, but it is done by independent third parties who don’t have a financial stake in the outcome, which is always nice.

The Pharma companies do the best human clinical studies but they are incentivized to overstate the benefits, minimize the side effects, and they work to “financially incentivize” the doctors and other healthcare workers to push their products (though the rules around Pharma salespeople have gotten better over the past decade from what I can tell).

In total, the way I look at the two segments is that the manufacturing of medications by the largest Pharma (US, Europe and India manufacturers) on average seems much more likely to be a safe and effective medication, than is a supplement from a similar set of larger US/Europe/India supplement companies.

On the research side, there is a lot of independent academic research (broadly speaking) on both supplements and medications, but I would argue that the data is much better on the drugs being sold, than on the supplements.

And, while clinical trials done by large Pharma have their problems, there generally are not many comparable human types of human clinical trials with supplements. So, again, medications (in my view) are also much better on the research/clinical trial side of the ledger.

I have lots of issues with how Big Pharma operate, but manufacturing quality is not generally one of them.

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There is also Labdoor:

and for research summaries:

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You wouldn’t buy a brand that passed testing? That’s your choice, but I’m not sure what other criteria you are using to make such choices. I bought the Solaray brand of berberine based on the Consumerlab study.

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Consumerlab also has an excellent breakdown of all the evidence for each individual supplement as well, both positive and negative. I find that extremely helpful.

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Has there ever been a study showing an improvement in outcomes from berberine? Whether it is cardiovascular events, deaths, or all-cause mortality? Berberine is relatively much worse than other compounds, in my opinion.

A reasonable read of that single case (keeping that fact in mind while wondering why a one-off case was reported in the way it was), is the patient: a) had for six weeks been taking up to 6X the recommended dose of CBD oil from multiple sources untested for potency and purity, b) was experiencing the effects of hypotension during this six week period, c) added at an unspecified time (could be poor syntax) a very low dose (250 mg.) of berberine (also untested), d) demonstrated upon admission a prolonged QTc interval which returned to within normal bounds upon cessation of CBD and berberine.

Headlining this one-off case as an effect of berberine is unjustified. In vitro, berberine does demonstrate effects which might (or might not) translate to prolonged QTc interval in controlled clinical trials.

I will remain on the sidelines with respect to berberine for the time being but this case did not play and would not play any part in that decision. Since I occasionally record an ECG on my iPhone, I just went back to review my QTC intervals during the time I was taking 1,200 mg. of berberine daily (a period of about five years but I only have ECGs for three). They were all in normal bounds for my gender and age.

We should also keep in mind the scattering of evidence that metformin might have similar effects on QTc intervals and other cardiac metrics.

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