Which supplements do you think are still worth taking?

Supplements
#374

As a normal weight, reasonably fit person of the same general age as these two guys @LaraPo, I understand and agree with what you are saying. Trump also uses heavy spray-on tanning chemicals, makeup, and hair dye whereas Biden doesn’t appear to camouflage his looks. The fact that he doesn’t permits us to see the translucency of his skin as it grows increasingly thin due to age-related factors.

However, I would still say that Biden is more frail and unsure of his footing. I’m not talking about the occasional falls, which both have taken, but more of how he approaches and navigates obstacles on stage, etc.

Only some of this has to do with physiological age, where I would not think Trump to be younger. If I were underwriting life insurance policies, I would charge more for his. I don’t suppose any of this matters because neither of these two people appear to avail themselves of advanced longevity medicines.

1 Like
#375

I see what you are saying. Both need rapamycin like yesterday! The only thing is that it’s logically incorrect to say that Biden is “more frail” (more than who?) because Trump is not frail at all. He’s overweight.

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#376

I have three paid LLM accounts and put the metformin/berberine question to all of them. While formatted differently, the answers were almost identical and varied only slightly in detail. I think present a good general read on the literature. I did not drill down further which is something I would ordinarily do at this point. I may follow up on that tomorrow using the same context window.

The following is Claude 3.0’s answer:

QUESTION
Multiple studies have identified that metformin and berberine have positive effects related to metabolic syndrome, cancer, obesity, type 2 diabetes, ischemic heart disease, stroke, myocardial infarction, and atherosclerosis. Considering each benefit separately, assess the quality and amount of research supporting metformin and berberine and compare the two, identifying, if possible, the drug for which the evidence is greater.

RESPONSE
Metformin and berberine are both compounds that have been studied for their potential therapeutic effects in various metabolic and cardiovascular diseases. Here’s an assessment of the quality and amount of research supporting each compound for the mentioned conditions, along with a comparison between the two:

Metabolic syndrome:
Metformin: Numerous clinical trials and meta-analyses have demonstrated the efficacy of metformin in improving various components of metabolic syndrome, such as reducing insulin resistance, lowering blood glucose levels, and improving lipid profiles. The evidence supporting metformin’s use in metabolic syndrome is robust and well-established.

Berberine: Several studies, mostly conducted in vitro and in animal models, have suggested that berberine may have beneficial effects in metabolic syndrome by improving insulin sensitivity, lipid metabolism, and inflammation. However, the clinical evidence from human studies is relatively limited compared to metformin.

Cancer:
Metformin: There is a growing body of epidemiological and preclinical evidence suggesting that metformin may have anticancer properties and potentially reduce the risk of certain types of cancer, particularly in diabetic patients. However, large-scale clinical trials are still needed to confirm these findings.

Berberine: Some in vitro and animal studies have indicated that berberine may possess anticancer activities, such as inducing apoptosis in cancer cells and inhibiting tumor growth. However, the clinical evidence in humans is limited, and more research is required to establish its potential as an anticancer agent.

Obesity:
Metformin: Metformin has been shown to have modest weight-reducing effects in obese individuals, particularly those with type 2 diabetes or metabolic syndrome. Several clinical trials and meta-analyses have supported its use as an adjunct therapy for weight management.

Berberine: Several studies have reported that berberine may aid in weight loss and improve metabolic parameters in obese individuals. However, the quality and quantity of evidence are somewhat limited compared to metformin.

Type 2 diabetes:
Metformin: Metformin is a first-line medication for the treatment of type 2 diabetes mellitus. Its efficacy in improving glycemic control and reducing the risk of diabetes-related complications is well-established through numerous high-quality clinical trials and meta-analyses.

Berberine: While some studies have suggested that berberine may have beneficial effects on glycemic control and insulin sensitivity in individuals with type 2 diabetes, the evidence is less robust and comprehensive compared to metformin.

Ischemic heart disease, stroke, myocardial infarction, and atherosclerosis:
Metformin: Several observational studies and meta-analyses have indicated that metformin may have cardioprotective effects and reduce the risk of cardiovascular events, such as myocardial infarction and stroke, in individuals with type 2 diabetes. However, the evidence is not as strong as for its glucose-lowering effects.

Berberine: Limited clinical studies have suggested that berberine may have potential benefits in improving cardiovascular risk factors, such as lipid profiles and endothelial function. However, large-scale clinical trials are lacking, and the evidence for its effects on cardiovascular outcomes is limited.

Summary
In summary, while both metformin and berberine have shown promising effects in various metabolic and cardiovascular conditions, the quality and amount of research supporting metformin is generally more robust and well-established, particularly for the treatment of type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome. Metformin has a stronger evidence base from numerous high-quality clinical trials and meta-analyses, while the evidence for berberine is mostly derived from preclinical and small-scale clinical studies. However, berberine may have potential as a complementary or alternative therapy, and further research is warranted to fully understand its therapeutic potential.

#377

Only some of this has to do with physiological age, where I would not think Trump to be younger. If I were underwriting life insurance policies, I would charge more for his.

Politics aside, I wonder what the actuaries would have to say about this. My guess would be Biden, who pretty clearly appears to have some type of dementia.

2 Likes
#378

@jnorm Did you see the hour long unscripted interview with Biden this past weekend? I have seen first hand some ersatz news outlets cherry pick their video vignettes to align with their political ideologies.

I have no interest in either the left or the right but to this point, I used to assess IQ for extra money in graduate school and my step-son is a university-based neuropsychologist who specializes in assessing mental competence. After a few hundred assessment, you get a pretty good feel for the subject. Biden has a lifelong speech impediment which he mostly conquered in his adult years but is now growing worse with age, as is often the case. I recall hearing his impediment as far back as the Robert Bork hearings. It tends to get worse when he gets excited. Additionally, he suffers from an almost universal problem in old age that does not correlate with IQ. It sometimes takes we older folks a few seconds to retrieve a memory. This delayed retrieval problem (which typically begins in the 30’s or 40’s but is generally not noticeable until much later in life) is the opposite of what you see in AD, where the disease first affects storage. Delayed retrieval issues can also differ according to data type. Proper and common nouns, for example, are stored differently in a different area of the brain than other forms of information. It is easy to confuse these manifestations with dementia.

AD patients generally recall pre-onset memories well in the early stages and sometimes well into the late stages but cannot form new memories. I won’t assess Trump’s mental status lest this get political which is a waste of time in this forum, IMO.

6 Likes
#379

That is the KEY question.

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#380

@RobTuck Have you posted your stack of supplements anywhere on this forum?

#381

I haven’t. I’ll work on it and post next week.

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#382

Looking at the studies reported on this forum there is a selection bias that IMO wrongly indicated a merit of metformin for other than diabetes. Clearly the LLMs have not picked this up. That in itself is an interesting point about how LLMs work.

In essence LLMs can only do effective searching amongst the written knowledge base and will be biased towards the conventional wisdom.

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#383

Where do you get this nonsense from?

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#384

@John_Hemming. So long as an LLM doesn’t omit growing extra-conventional views, I woul dnot say it is a bias. Given that the present level of functioning of most public LLMs used for our purposes is as an ultra-fast system to scour the extant knowledge on the Internet and parse and summarize it according to quality metrics applicable to the prompt, it will as you say favor the received view. But is will not exclude other views. If the prompts are written correctly (it often takes several iteratively) it will pick up on countervailing views if they have been expressed online, even in Op Eds. Every time I inquired about rapamycin, it presented the new, off-label uses as a growing trend and was able to identify and classify all of the rapamycin longevity research ranging from test tubes, to worms, to mice, to humans. It even identifies the homogeneous lab mouse problem. Most of the public LLMs have cutoff dates, so any major publication or trend in the last six months might be missed.

#385

I know some people here take melatonin, I recently started as well (2.5mg/night). There’s quite a bit of literature on it’s role in oxidative stress, but one thing that I don’t think gets mentioned enough is its effect on body temperature.

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From the BLSA you can see that when study population is separated by body temperature into two halves (each with similar initial ages), the half with higher body temperature fares worse.

CR is well-known to reduce core temperature [ref], and in Rhesus it also prevents age related decline in circulating melatonin. [ref] Editing neuroendocrine system in mice to lower body temperature also produces lifespan extension. [ref]

For each group, subjects ingested either sucrose placebo or a 0.1, 0.5, 1.0, or 5.0 mg melatonin capsule at 1600 hr in a double-blind counterbalanced cross-over design… At the lower doses the mean drop in CT was between 0.05 and 0.15 degrees C and took between 2 and 3 hr. At the higher doses (1.0 and 5.0 mg), CT fell by 0.25-0.3 degrees C within 30-60 min following ingestion and at the highest dose (5 mg) remained suppressed for the duration of the study. The hypothermic effect of melatonin on core body temperature: is more better?

#386

Timing on Melatonin is very important. If you can it is probably best to take it after initially getting to sleep and some time during the night (also on slow release).

I have more recently, but rarely, however, on occasions taken over a gram a night. My reasoning relates to protecting mitochondrial DNA.

3 Likes
#387

Interesting post. Thanks @jnorm. I am not taking melatonin but my waking body temperature is ~96.2. I have speculated that this is due to genetics and low inflammation levels. I may experiment to see if melatonin lowers it further. Easy now that my watch tracks it as well. I wonder if there is a floor below which lower sleeping temps are no longer positive.

1 Like
#388

Hi Joseph, did you ever see any window come through?

#389

I don’t recall getting a link to a recording. But I may have missed it. It’s been a while.

#390

interesting but as a supplement hard to come by. Would annatto powder or oil work, from what I found most GG supplements seem to be made from annatto

#391

Sorry, GG is widely available in the U.S.
Amazon has many brands and some of them claim to be from Annatto.
“Geranylgeraniol GG Supplement from Annatto”

#392

Still another life-extending supplement?
Interesting video

Maybe using whipping cream in your coffee might be a way of getting C15
“Heavy whipping cream contains around 353 mg of C15:0 per 100g serving, making it one of the richest dietary sources.”

3 Likes
#393

I am already liking this one, found mainly in full fat dairy and ruminant meat :yum: