Except it does make a big difference. Look at the figure from PMID: 11034258. The initial drop from the peak is way faster than a half-life of 63 would indicate, and the timing of the peak varies significantly, so the values in the first hour or two are all over the place and hard to compare. It’s only after about 48 hours when the drop is gradual in line with a half-life of 63 hours. The values in the figure at 24 and 48 hours differ in a pretty linear way with the dose given so those are good time points to measure for bioavailability comparison. Besides at that time it hasn’t even been one half-life since the peak so the rate of metabolism shouldn’t have a large effect on the values there. The values at that time are more a function of the rate of absorption. The metabolism rate would be more apparent at a much longer time after dosing, which is why measuring at something like 96 hours would be good to see how fast one is metabolizing it.
That much is true. I agree it’s very important to know that to determine how long of a space between doses is optimal for each individual. However I think it’s also very important to figure out where each individual stands in terms of bioavailability. As an example, all those longevity leaders that are taking 6 mg weekly, some of them are getting 2-3 times more than others due to increased absorption. You can’t compare yourself to other people if you don’t know your absorption. The only way to do that is with blood tests, and for that you need to measure rapamycin in the blood at a time point where it is relatively stable where the level reflects the absorption of rapamycin rather than the timing (if you measure too close to the peak) or the metabolism (if you measure a few half-lives after the dose). If anyone has a better suggestion to compare bioavailability with blood tests please share.
I don’t think that Dr. Green, Dr. Attia or other experts taking or prescribing Rapamycin frequently measure or rely on the blood levels. As far as I understand, many of them watch for an appearance of side effects indicating that the dose is too high- not too scientific.
Yes i suspect you are right. Most of them prescribe based on some simple protocol like 3mg for light people, 6mg for average weight people, and 8mg if you are older or heavier than average.
Yes I doubt they rely on blood levels. But that’s because they don’t have much to compare them too, in addition to the fact that it’s not so easy to get such tests and get people to take them. If they actually would ask all their clients that can to take blood tests and would collect the data from them, then such test results would become much more useful as a means to compare bioavailability between individuals relative to the average person.
The reason they usually watch for an appearance of side effects is probably that the mouse studies have found the greatest benefits at the highest doses and so far we haven’t found the ceiling and given how high the doses given in the mouse studies are it makes sense to aim for something that is as high as people tolerate without any side effects.
If you haven’t read it already, checked out the thread at
Just saw this. Interesting.
iron levels are not a good thing which is verified many places. At most esp older people should have none or only very very small reserves.
Though anecdotal, I have realized that 1-3 days after I take rapa i tend to be stronger physically, i.e. in cases where i can barely do 10 repetitions of a certain exercise, 1-3 days after rapa i can do 13-14 repetitions of same exercise. Don’t know about muscle growth since I’m not interested in that. Interesting to hear if anyone has realized such effect?
Interesting observation. I continue to do strength training about 5 days/week and have not noticed any noticeable difference(s) following my weekly dose of rapamycin.
Same for me. But I do have less joint pain… unclear if the joint pain relief is from rapa or red light /IR lamp therapy.
If you start with the idea that Rapamycin increases autophagy which improves the ATP/O efficiency of cells and as a consequence translation improves any effect should be gradual.
Joseph,
Regarding rapamycin’s ability to reduce inflammation. You might find Matt Kaeberlein’s personal experience of interest:
A longevity researcher takes a $1 drug to slow down aging, and he says it worked to treat his joint pain
Thanks. This story is why I’m here. I hope for more but this is the primary target.
With rapamycin I can increase weight on machines 10 pounds every 3 months. Kinda plateaued recently.
65 years old and I weigh 181 pounds…and I can fly chest 175 pounds. Pull down … and pull to me 165 pounds. 2 sets of 20 pull-ups.
Definitely stronger… but look shredded.
Can even arm wrestle much younger guys and win easily.
Much stronger.
Same here, very strong for my age.
Another anecdotal but fun fact (which may or may not be related to rapa). Couple weeks ago i met a dude we grew up together but haven’t seen him in 3-4 years. He used to be exactly one inch taller than me in our youth. Out of nowhere he goes, you seem taller than me, how can that be I was taller than you? to which I replied I was actually taller than you, but you used to cheat when measuring up LOL. Anyway, I know that some people shrink more than others as we age but can it be that this sucker rapa reduces the old age shrinking of people also? I started Rapa 3-4 years ago for a while then stopped and started few months ago again, and I don’t think I’ve shrank much, if at all. Would be interesting to know if anyone doing rapa for over three years if they seem to think the same.
I think rapamycin works for joint pain. I am 82 with no joint pain whatsoever, except for some right ankle pain when walking and that is from screwing it up running and playing tennis on hard surfaces.
I’m a believer in the healthspan power of rapamycin and I agree that rapamycin works for joint pain but I think it is somewhat ironic that people “buy in” because of Kaeberlein’s shoulder story. Its pretty unconvincing to me for a number of reasons including that he is a rapa researcher and thus incredibly biased. His pain relief could easily have been placebo effect (which I think he concedes) but I doubt that too. I think the affect of rapamycin on his shoulder and other’s reports of its effect on joint pain in general are likely only indirectly related to its longevity effects. Kaeberlein would likely have had the same result with prednisone and certainly with a cortisone injection. I do think that long term inflammation suppression is likely a key feature of rapamycin’s longevity affects but I think most short term wow affects of rapamycin (in dogs and humans) is more due to suppression of inflammation and thus acute relief of pain. Maybe I’m splitting hairs here?
I don’t know how effective rapamycin is for reducing joint pain. My personal experience is this: At age 80 I had some serious side effects from the Pfizer covid vaccine. Before I had the vaccine I felt minor arthritic pain in my hips and knees after the shots I got major joint pains and I had to use a cane for a couple of months. After taking rapamycin at 20mg with GFJ and EVOO once every other week, the pains went away rather quickly along with my age-related “essential tremors”. Did the rapamycin do it? I don’t know, but it was quite a coincidence.
I’ve read it’s good for bones so your experience makes sense. I’ll try to find a link where I read about the bone benefits. Edit: here it is fwiw.