Not true. It is not about being pro or against anything. Rather it is being pragmatic. I have yet to find a medication an or a vaccine (if you like) that does not come with a whole list of side effects and in some rare cases very severe, even life threatening. The point is the benefits out way the risks. Let say a medication or a vaccine (for sake of discussion) might cause 5 deaths but might prevent 10 million. Taken in its face value it’s absolutely beneficial. However, if you force me to take metformin as an example (I might have absolutely no use for it, actually I don’t for real) and all of the sudden I drop dead you basically killed unnecessarily a human being.
So back to the vaccine part (which you seem fixated on it) I had read on CDC website in first 6 months of Covid 19, the statistical data for 0-25 years old (as an example) the risk of dying from COVID was virtually zero. If i remember correctly there were only 2-4 deaths related to covid, in people with no preexisting conditions in this age group, while the seasonal flue was 400 deaths per year in same group with no preexisting condition.
The question I have, why are we forcing kids then to have covid 19 vaccine, and not forcing them to have the seasonal flu vaccine since flu seems 200 more deadly than Covid to them, and then why am I wrong in having this question?
The problem with people like you is, you want everyone to do as you do, and believe what you believe, and God forbid if someone looks at things differently, and form their own opinion. They are endangering the life of everyone, where in fact it is people with your line of thinking that are extremely dangerous in today’s society.
What I usually find perplexing is the fact that people that espouse your beliefs (basically force anyone to conform with your ideas/thinking or be shunned and God know what else you’d propose if people like you were 100% in power of making decisions) are most hypocrite of all. If you are so adamant that what CDC and WHO and other medical organizations recommend, then why are you going against science and against these same organization’s guidelines, and against doctor recommendations in taking RAPA. I was golfing one day with a doctor and the RAPA discussion came up, and he was in shock that I’d be taking such a medication without the careful monitoring of a doctor, and he begged me to stop before I’ll have severe complications.
By same talking people who have the same way of thinking as you, advice for higher taxes (another subject) and then hire the most advanced tax layers at a cost of millions of dollars to try and exploit every tax loophole ever existed so pay as little taxes as possible for themselves. LOL dude my advice to you is try and stay away (at least on these board) from your mentality that you are the harbinger of truth, and you are the chosen one and know what is right and what is wrong for everyone.
and if you were recovered the chance of dying from covid was literally 0, so even the safest most well tested vaccine could only do harm, yet also the recovered were forced to take the vaccine
those 2-4 probably had some still unknown underlying condition, like the spanish (iirc) professional football player that died from covid who turned out to have some form of leukemia or lymphoma
The chance of dying from covid after having been infected once was still higher than the risk of complications from the vaccine.
No one was forced to take the vaccine. Despite what you may remember, liberal death squads were not patrolling the streets and checking your vaccination status.
““We are seeing, right now, the highest death rates we have seen in the history of this business – not just at OneAmerica,” CEO Scott Davison said during an online news conference in January 2022. “The data is consistent across every player in that business.””
One thing that I am curious about is the Cov-19 virus itself and its effect on people. When viruses enter a cell, they can change the intracellular environment permanently. I would like to see more focus on, how the exposure to the COV-19 virus can impact health negatively in both vaccinated and not vaccinated people. And cause effects long after the acute infection is gone. This similarly to what the Polio virus once did.
Today we have people with symptoms of the COV-19 disease long after the acute Covid infection is gone, long covid. Just like, we have had people with "long"polio. Some people never really recovered from the poliovirus. And some people had only minor polio symptoms, in the acute phase, but the Polio virus made them permanently more frail than people who never had Polio.
I find the debate between vaccinated and anti-vaccination people disturbing, this since the debate is more of a war between opinions than a search for scientific knowledge. A virus can permanently change the cell (as also a vaccine can do) and cause long-lasting effects on health.
My point is that we need a lot more focus on the long covid syndrome and the permanent effects on the human body caused by the Cov-19 virus. I miss that perspective in the debate and around the question of increased deaths. The debate is too focused on vaccine or not vaccine. The effects of the Vaccines should be addressed as they might be detrimental, but not at the price of forgetting the long term effects of the virus itself. Which can be detrimental to some people.
that’s just not true (otherwise show me 1 case report of an UNvaccinated person that got covid twice, survived the first time and had positive nucleocapsid antibodies, not just 2 positive tests but died the 2nd time) and if it were then the vaccines were pointless too and would just offer additional risk
maybe not according to the law but in reality the lives of the unvaccinated were made so difficult that many felt forced/coerced into taking the vaccine
I don’t know where you live but in many parts of the world vaccine was mandatory (if you wanted to go to work or go to school). I know for a fact in NYC it was mandatory. I was even refused service in a restaurant because I didn’t show a vaccine card. I also had to buy a fake card in order for me to be able to work. Three people in my organization that refuses to take the vaccine were actually fired.
But I’m sure there were states where the vaccine was not mandatory, but all those states were run by people who were 100% opposite of your views so you cannot have the cake and eat it too.
Time will come and we’ll know who was right, pro-vaxers or anti-vaxers. Till then ppl will continue dying either from Covid vaccine or from Covid virus. Vaccinations were indirectly enforced, like @Mogli described, bc at that time most believed that vaccination prevents infection and spreading. It proved to be false.
I was vaccinated with the first 2 Pfizer vaccines, with the second one administered 4 mo after the 1st. I had Covid once, a year ago. It was mild. Just recently had another undiagnosed virus, with totally unusual symptoms that do not point to Covid, PSV or flu. My body reacted in the most unusual way and it could be bc of 2 Covid vaccines or the Covid virus I got a year ago. After recovery, I observed rapid aging of skin on my face. Within 2 days, 4 brown spots developed on my cheek and many tiny wrinkles appeared around my eyes. It was scary to watch bc I realized that similar rapid aging is happening now for my whole body. I just don’t see it.
It has never been proved to be false. The vaccinations did prevent infection, and thus decreased the spread. That they became less effective over time because of new variants doesn’t mean they weren’t effective in the first place.
No that’s not true. In Pfizer’s own trial there was 1 death due to covid pneumonia in the mrna-arm of the trial vs 2 deaths due to covid in the placebo group. Covid pneumonia that’s clearly covid but what does covid mean in the placebo group tested positive and died within a certain time frame? See supplemental table S4
It does because legally the vaccines are not experimental and no one was forced but that doesn’t make it so, just like you can legally change your sex doesn’t mean you have actually changed sex. legal opinions are that just legal opinions not based on actual facts but on opinions
The trial did not show any efficacy. If we wanted less positive results we could have stopped testing. People died just as much from covid because that is the only true measure of efficacy. And a truly safe and effective vaccine should have both less deaths from the disease against which is vaccinated as well as lower all cause mortality.
I’m not going to discuss this further because you don’t understand statistics or how the trial was powered.
Mostly because I have already discussed this with you and you don’t learn.
Statistics are not necessary in this case because the results are clear, the overall all cause mortality was higher in the mrna-group therefor the vaccine can be effective but not safe, it can be ineffective and safe but it cannot be both safe and effective. Incidentally the deaths in the vaccine arm are not just random either, they cluster in certain causes: 9 cardiovascular deaths vs 6 and 4 due to severe bacterial infection vs 0