https://www.nature.com/articles/s41514-025-00280-7
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As a marathon runner I’m rather obsessed about tendon and cartilage health and I’ve followed with interest the work of Keith Baar on collagen for tendons/cartilage.
I was already supplementing with collagen + vitamin C but this seems to bring it to the next level:
OK maybe this should cool me down a bit:
I hope Nature did a proper review.
Here is the commercial supplement: Collagen Activator
In conclusion I will stick to my larger dose of 15g collagen + 50 (min) mg Vit-C + 12 mg astaxanthin.
Not sure yet about Ca-AKG but it needs to be in an effective form which is expensive IIRC.
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Interestingly the longest median lifespan in the worm experiment showed 10:1:1 Gly:Pro:Hyp ratio, longer than 3:1:1.
Maybe the “extra” glycine contributes to higher glutathione.
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I’ve been taking VeCollal Type I (hair/skin) for a couple of years and was just about to stop my subscription because I assumed I’d hear about it more often if vegan collagen worked.
They have recently come out with VeCollal Type 2 that is for joints and bones (if it could help with osteoperosis, it would be a good investment).
(Fwiw, I get this in a drink made by Feel)
@cl-user because it’s in nature, I’m now thinking the effects are real. Would you mind taking a look at Vecollal and let me know if you think that is as good as the Avea Life activator? I am open to making the switch if we think any of this could help me with bones or skin. (I’m not concerned about my tendons, says everyone until they have a problem:)
EDIT: I forgot to add that I already take ca-akg and astaxanthin, but so I’m not clear if I’m already getting the same benefit.
VeCollal type 1
VeCollal® (Glycine, L-Proline, L-Alanine, Gotu Kola Extract (Centella Asiatica Leaf Extract, Maltodextrin)
Type 2
Ingredients : VeCollal® Type 2 (Glycine, L-Proline, L-Alanine, L-Aspartic Acid, L-Glutamine, Elderberry Extract Powder, L-Glutamic Acid, L-Arginine, L-Serine Monohydrochloride, L-Leucine, L-Valine, L-Threonine, L-Glutamine, L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, Ascorbic Acid, L-Isoleucine, L-Phenylalanine, L-Tyrosine, L-Methionine, L-Histidine, L-Tryptophan, Turmeric Extract)
VeCollal is Glycine, L-Proline, L-Alanine but they don’t give the ratios. They are missing Hydroxyproline though. Hydroxyproline is an important proportion of collagen so it’s probably better to have it.
There are plenty of vegan collagen substitutes. I just looked on amazon and here is one for which they give the amino acid profile and is has Glycine, Proline and Hydroxyproline in a somewhat similar ratio at around 2:1:1.
You can add some glycine to it and get pretty close to the 3:1:1 of the paper.
Or you can take any other one that gives its amino acid profile and add Glycine and eventually Proline to get the 3:1:1 ratio.
BTW you could just buy the Glycine, Proline and Hydroxyproline powders and mix that yourself.
Here is some Hydroxyproline powder I just googled
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@cl-user, thank you for breaking it down for me.
I went to order the Hydroxyproline powder so I could make my own (I love that idea!), but I see they don’t ship to the US.
FYI, for Black Friday, if you buy 3 months worth of Avea Collagen Activator, it’s currently an extra 25% off, and they are throwing in a free month, so that works out to be $44 per month for 4 months. I’m almost out of my CA AKG, so I can justify the cost that way.
Having said that, I don’t know if just taking CA AKG powder in a drink works, but if I do pull the trigger, it gives me time to find a way to get Hydroxyproline powder to make my own brew.
@relaxedmeatball
Before I go waste money on yet another supplement, I’d also love to get your take on the paper that cl user shared yesterday from nature.
I’ve always thought that, if collagen supplements do anything, it’s not just because of the amino acid profile, but because some of the collagen peptides act as signaling molecules for fibroblasts and stimulate our own collagen production.
Now I’m wondering how much of that is real science and how much is just marketing.
I recently got a free sample of Vollagen (vegan “collagen” – vollagen.com). From what I can see, it’s a blend of amino acids designed to match the amino acid profile of human collagen, and the manufacturer shows a 60-day study claiming benefits for skin, hair and nails.
I’m thinking of trying it, but I’m curious how this kind of “collagen-builder” (just amino acids) compares to regular hydrolyzed collagen peptides.
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Keith Baar and his team have tried to find out if there were differences between various branded collagen peptides vs simple cheap gelatin and they could not find any as long as enough Vit C is present.
BTW there are also collagen dipeptides and tripeptides that cross into the blood after ingestion. They will not be present in the supplements made with pure amino acids.
That said at least Vollagen tried to have the same amino acid proportions than natural collagen so that’s a first step. They don’t have any real study to prove it’s as effective though.
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Do you need to consume collagen peptides and vitamin C at the same time or within a 24 hour period?
I usually consume collagen in my morning coffee and vitamin C XR after dinner.
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@cl-user @scta123
Because Vollagen has hydroxyproline, proline, glycine… in addition to many of the other things in VeCollal, I looked up Vetology (which is a provided link from Vollagen’s website). Interestingly, Vetology shows it does not contain hydroxyproline… hmmm
I’m still stuck on whether any of the vegan options are worth the bother. Avea is great IF powdered CA AKG is effective, but a powder is going to be released faster than anything, so I’m a skeptic. I’ve been using Renue by Science that might just be a touch slower.
@DeStrider I was wondering the same… incase I can get my hands on hydroxyproline powder to make my own
You need to have vitamin C present in your system when the collagen amino acids and peptides are in the blood. If the vitamin C XR lasts long enough it will be OK.
BTW the collagen dose needs to be at least 15g and the amino acids and peptides are in the blood only for a couple hours or so as seen in the charts below.
Paper: Vitamin C–enriched gelatin supplementation before intermittent activity augments collagen synthesis
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In the end, I’m not impressed by the collagen activator as they made some kind of hybrid longevity/collagen supplement by adding astaxanthin and CaAKG both in a suboptimal form that nobody would buy separately.
VeCollal is not even a good collagen supplement.
Collagen is better as they made an effort to closely match the collagen amino acid profile.
The only missing part will be the di/tri-peptides but their importance is not yet known.
Otherwise I would start with a vegan complete protein that gives its amino acid profile and complement it with glycine, proline and hydroxyproline to get the proper 3:1:1 ratio. BTW Vit-C is crucially important too.
In fact after some googling I found something which does exactly that:
Amazon.com: Igennus Advanced Vegan Vanilla Collagen Peptide Powder, Enhanced with Glycine, Proline & Hydroxyproline & Cofactor Vitamin C, Non GMO, Vegetarian Plant Based Collagen Powder Booster, 140 Servings : Health & Household
That or something equivalent is probably the best you can do while remaining strictly vegan.
Still no di/tri-peptides though.
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Thank you for your analysis…
I won’t buy VeCollal or Avea’s collegen stimulator… so thanks for helping me prevent more wasted money!
I was hoping that sipping on CA AKG all day (in the collagen stimulator product or just buying CA AKG plain powder) might give a similar-ish effect to the sustained release $$$ Rejuvant brand, but your answer makes me think that is a big fat no!
At your recommendation, I’ll give Vollagen or the Igennus a try and cross my fingers!
I did search and have not found, thus far, a food grade hdroyxyproline to buy. The only one I found, which is the one you linked to, won’t ship to the US (I asked them).
Many thanks!
Ok, in my search to find products that contain Vollagen or hydroxyproline, I found a product that contains a form of hibiscus said to be a great collagen substitute
VC-H1® Hibiscus Extract
I assumed it was utter nonsense, but I’m finding quite a few references to it, including how it contains hydroxyproline @cl-user, care to take a look?
I’ve been adding hibiscus to my water for a while but google says regular hibiscus does not contain hydroxyproline.
They reference a randomized, placebo controlled, double blind study here:
https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/26/15/7291
And perplexity said this:
VC-H1® Hibiscus Extract is a plant-based collagen alternative composed of hydrolyzed peptides derived from a hydroxyproline-rich glycoprotein found in hibiscus. It contains bioactive di- and tripeptides with high levels of glycine, proline, and hydroxyproline—key amino acids that make up collagen’s bioactive sequences. These peptides, such as proline-hydroxyproline (Pro-Hyp), signal fibroblasts in the skin to increase collagen synthesis, thus promoting skin rejuvenation, elasticity, and wrinkle reduction.
VC-H1® operates through a dual mechanism: it stimulates collagen production by direct fibroblast signaling and contains antioxidants (polyphenols and anthocyanins) that protect existing collagen from degradation by neutralizing reactive oxygen species and inflammatory processes. This dual action uniquely supports both collagen synthesis and preservation. Clinical trials demonstrated that oral VC-H1® supplementation significantly improves skin hydration, reduces transepidermal water loss (TEWL), enhances elasticity, and decreases wrinkle depth.
Regarding hydroxyproline, it is a crucial component of VC-H1®’s peptides, arranged in motifs identical to those in animal collagen, which trigger collagen synthesis. The extract’s hydroxyproline-containing peptides are highly bioavailable due to their low molecular weight (~316 Da), facilitating their absorption and effectiveness in skin repair. Overall, VC-H1® offers a scientifically validated vegan alternative to traditional animal-derived collagen supplements with added antioxidant benefits for skin health .
EDIT:
It seems to have the ratio of glycine, proline and hyrdroxyproline you said was important. And notably, it says it had the DI and TRI peptides you referenced
Good find. Looks like it’s the best vegan alternative we’ve seen so far.
That said the paper with the RCT did not look at collagen production but only at skin and wrinkles so it could be collagen but also confounders like anti-oxidation, etc. Also one of the author is from the supplement company.
That’s why their brochure is disingenuous as they added a chart (top right) about collagen production which is not in that RCT and that looks suspiciously fake. The paper does not mention collagen production except to reference a mouse study which does not have this chart either. So warning sign here.
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Thank you for doing the deep dive!
I see it’s available at veggimins with a buy one and get the second half off code. Free shipping and no tax…
It might be a little shady, but if it’s the best vegan option so far, considering I can get a two months supply all in for $44, I’ll be our canary in the coal mine.
Sorry Beth, this is the paper, right: A collagen amino acid composition supplementation reduces biological age in humans and increases health and lifespan in vivo | npj Aging
So it’s in NPJ Aging, which is like a baby brother version of Nature Aging. Still good though.
To me the results look “okay”, but pretty weak. The human result is pretty underwhelming. There’s no control group, and it only just scrapes statistical significance (p = 0.04) for the main headline result. IMO that could quite easily just be due to chance. Again, since there’s no control group, maybe it’s some seasonal variance in skin, or the very fact that trial participants know they’re going to be subjected to lots of photos, questionnaires and detailed facial scans it makes them behave better. (This is a well known study phenomenon called the Hawthorn Effect, if you’re interested).
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I noticed Veggimins had vit A which I didn’t want to add, so I then found VC-H1 in this product on Amazon. AI told me the manufacturer is a from respected brand in South Korea
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D5WT5H6N?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1