So, what's the deal with collagen?

#227

In the end, I’m not impressed by the collagen activator as they made some kind of hybrid longevity/collagen supplement by adding astaxanthin and CaAKG both in a suboptimal form that nobody would buy separately.

VeCollal is not even a good collagen supplement.

Collagen is better as they made an effort to closely match the collagen amino acid profile.
The only missing part will be the di/tri-peptides but their importance is not yet known.

Otherwise I would start with a vegan complete protein that gives its amino acid profile and complement it with glycine, proline and hydroxyproline to get the proper 3:1:1 ratio. BTW Vit-C is crucially important too.

In fact after some googling I found something which does exactly that:
Amazon.com: Igennus Advanced Vegan Vanilla Collagen Peptide Powder, Enhanced with Glycine, Proline & Hydroxyproline & Cofactor Vitamin C, Non GMO, Vegetarian Plant Based Collagen Powder Booster, 140 Servings : Health & Household

That or something equivalent is probably the best you can do while remaining strictly vegan.
Still no di/tri-peptides though.

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#228

Thank you for your analysis…

I won’t buy VeCollal or Avea’s collegen stimulator… so thanks for helping me prevent more wasted money!

I was hoping that sipping on CA AKG all day (in the collagen stimulator product or just buying CA AKG plain powder) might give a similar-ish effect to the sustained release $$$ Rejuvant brand, but your answer makes me think that is a big fat no!

At your recommendation, I’ll give Vollagen or the Igennus a try and cross my fingers!

I did search and have not found, thus far, a food grade hdroyxyproline to buy. The only one I found, which is the one you linked to, won’t ship to the US (I asked them).

Many thanks!

#229

Ok, in my search to find products that contain Vollagen or hydroxyproline, I found a product that contains a form of hibiscus said to be a great collagen substitute
VC-H1® Hibiscus Extract

I assumed it was utter nonsense, but I’m finding quite a few references to it, including how it contains hydroxyproline @cl-user, care to take a look?

I’ve been adding hibiscus to my water for a while but google says regular hibiscus does not contain hydroxyproline.

They reference a randomized, placebo controlled, double blind study here:
https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/26/15/7291

And perplexity said this:
VC-H1® Hibiscus Extract is a plant-based collagen alternative composed of hydrolyzed peptides derived from a hydroxyproline-rich glycoprotein found in hibiscus. It contains bioactive di- and tripeptides with high levels of glycine, proline, and hydroxyproline—key amino acids that make up collagen’s bioactive sequences. These peptides, such as proline-hydroxyproline (Pro-Hyp), signal fibroblasts in the skin to increase collagen synthesis, thus promoting skin rejuvenation, elasticity, and wrinkle reduction.
VC-H1® operates through a dual mechanism: it stimulates collagen production by direct fibroblast signaling and contains antioxidants (polyphenols and anthocyanins) that protect existing collagen from degradation by neutralizing reactive oxygen species and inflammatory processes. This dual action uniquely supports both collagen synthesis and preservation. Clinical trials demonstrated that oral VC-H1® supplementation significantly improves skin hydration, reduces transepidermal water loss (TEWL), enhances elasticity, and decreases wrinkle depth.
Regarding hydroxyproline, it is a crucial component of VC-H1®’s peptides, arranged in motifs identical to those in animal collagen, which trigger collagen synthesis. The extract’s hydroxyproline-containing peptides are highly bioavailable due to their low molecular weight (~316 Da), facilitating their absorption and effectiveness in skin repair. Overall, VC-H1® offers a scientifically validated vegan alternative to traditional animal-derived collagen supplements with added antioxidant benefits for skin health .

EDIT:
It seems to have the ratio of glycine, proline and hyrdroxyproline you said was important. And notably, it says it had the DI and TRI peptides you referenced

#230

Good find. Looks like it’s the best vegan alternative we’ve seen so far.

That said the paper with the RCT did not look at collagen production but only at skin and wrinkles so it could be collagen but also confounders like anti-oxidation, etc. Also one of the author is from the supplement company.

That’s why their brochure is disingenuous as they added a chart (top right) about collagen production which is not in that RCT and that looks suspiciously fake. The paper does not mention collagen production except to reference a mouse study which does not have this chart either. So warning sign here.

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#231

Thank you for doing the deep dive!

I see it’s available at veggimins with a buy one and get the second half off code. Free shipping and no tax…

It might be a little shady, but if it’s the best vegan option so far, considering I can get a two months supply all in for $44, I’ll be our canary in the coal mine.

#232

Sorry Beth, this is the paper, right: A collagen amino acid composition supplementation reduces biological age in humans and increases health and lifespan in vivo | npj Aging

So it’s in NPJ Aging, which is like a baby brother version of Nature Aging. Still good though.

To me the results look “okay”, but pretty weak. The human result is pretty underwhelming. There’s no control group, and it only just scrapes statistical significance (p = 0.04) for the main headline result. IMO that could quite easily just be due to chance. Again, since there’s no control group, maybe it’s some seasonal variance in skin, or the very fact that trial participants know they’re going to be subjected to lots of photos, questionnaires and detailed facial scans it makes them behave better. (This is a well known study phenomenon called the Hawthorn Effect, if you’re interested).

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Collagen-amino-acid “cocktail” appears to turn back biological age, improves skin, in worms, mice, and humans
#233

I noticed Veggimins had vit A which I didn’t want to add, so I then found VC-H1 in this product on Amazon. AI told me the manufacturer is a from respected brand in South Korea

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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D5WT5H6N?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

#234

Mostly positive umbrella review of meta analyses for collagen that just came out.

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#235

Among 573 papers, 16 systematic reviews for a total of 113 RCTs and 7983 patients were included. In relation to skin, musculoskeletal health, and osteoarthritis conditions, collagen supplementation was consistently associated with favorable outcomes. Regarding oral health and cardiometabolic parameters, the impact of collagen supplementation yielded mixed results. Collagen supplementation demonstrates consistent and clinically meaningful benefits for dermal, bone, and muscular health. Level of Evidence: 3 (Therapeutic).

Skin, bone and muscle-yes.

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#236

The current evidence that collagen supplementation works for skin aging is weak, even for “suggesting benefit”.

New study:

Results

In both identified meta-analyses, we find inaccurate reporting of data from primary studies and inappropriate combinations of measures likely to give rise to spurious results. Meta-regression of collagen studies accounting for dose variations in primary studies found no evidence of benefit from collagen supplementation.

Conclusion

In sharp contrast to the reported results from prior meta-analysis, this investigation does not find evidence of benefit for supplementation from existing collagen studies. Evidence synthesis for collagen studies needs a stronger methodological underpinning if results are to be clinically relevant.

Hydrolyzed Collagen for Skin Aging Meta-Analyses Are Unreliable, Sep 28, 2026.

Discussion on X:

Alex Leaf on X: "My opinion on collagen for skin health outcomes leaned heavily on a prior 2025 meta-analysis my Myung (PMID: 40324552), so that is going to be my comparison point when looking at this recent publication by Grimes. I want to also note upfront that none of this is dealing with biolo… / X (see responses from Avi)

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Collagen for Skin: The Evidence Behind the Supplement Did Not Survive an Audit
#237

That was a smart back and forth exchange between the two of them. I still take it because it is included in the Microvitamin+ I take but I’m not sure if I would still take it on its own.

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#238

Anecdotally, I think the effects of collagen supplementation are subtle at best.
I would expect the effects of collagen supplementation to be more noticeable in older people.
Young people with good skin aren’t likely to notice anything. After consuming many pounds of collagen supplements over the years, I noticed nothing subjectively. So I give collagen supplementation a big meh. The price to benefit ratio is not good, so I have dropped it from my supplement list.

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#239

Ever since taking both collagen and oral hyaluronic acid, I have noticed far fewer wrinkles, and those I had seem to have regressed. I keep taking collagen because I like the dark chocolate flavored version and it makes my coffee into a cafe mocha with the collagen thrown in for almost free.

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#240

I’m a convert but it’s still mostly faith based. I’ve dabbled in collagen for years but never felt (or saw) any benefit. A year ago I interviewed a researcher on this topic. He said his studies showed benefits (on joint pain) for most of his subjects as long as they took the full dose for a full 4 months. As I had never given it this long I decided to begin a long term project. 1.5 years later I am still taking 10g of collagen everyday. The benefits have not been earthshaking but I am continuing despite being limited to 10 supplements.

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#241

You should try the Lemon flavored one, it’s very good also

#242

My perspective is that collagen before exercise is -established- science to impact tendon, ligament, and cartilage recovery. A scientist I follow is Dr. Keith Barr’s body of work. The main caveat to consider is that this is in conjunction with a stimulus like isometric holds to allow blood flow to the targeted ligaments etc. But collagen (with vit c) is an acceleration of that recovery.

  • The Achilles Tendon Evidence: A clinical trial published by Jerger et al. (2022) in Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports took physically active young men through 14 weeks of high-load resistance training.
    • The Result: The group taking a placebo plus training increased their Achilles tendon thickness by 4.7%. The group taking the collagen supplement plus training increased their tendon thickness by 11.0%. Collagen more than doubled the physical growth of the tendon. [1]
  • The Patellar Tendon Evidence: A subsequent trial published in European Journal of Sport Science replicated these findings in the knee. They discovered that while exercise typically only thickens specific segments of the patellar tendon, adding collagen uniformly potentiated hypertrophy along the entire length of the tendon compared to a placebo. [1, 2]

I am so happy I came upon this research. It has allowed me in my 70’s to have a robust physical life. I take collagen/Vit C before all my hard workouts as well before isolation holds to repair or bullet proof tendons, ligaments and cartilage. It is a big boost within the framework of a physical stimulus.

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#243

The collagen group increased to where the placebo group began. It’s too small of a study to tell anything for certain, and the placebo used maltodextrin and not a protein supplement.

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#244

I asked my Gemini Pro about your comments and it said - " In fact, every point raised in that critique is factually accurate and methodologically devastating to the claim that collagen “doubled tendon growth.”

A further mea culpa - I originally said I think it is -established science- that collagen works as a supplement. No matter what I think, that’s not the general consensus.

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#245

Towards the end of the video, he discusses a New Zealand study that showed dermal thickens improved with collagen.

I don’t know if it’s been previously discussed, but I’d love to know what you think about that vs just taking a hyaluronic supplement, as I already do.

My skin has always been thin and I worry about the natural thinining that happens more with old age.
(I’m vegan, and unless the improvement would be real, I would prefer not to take it. I was taking vegan collagen for a while but it seems that most don’t feel it’s effective)

FWIW, this is what Fable said, and ‘he’ dismisses Brad’s take. He feels oral hyaluronic acid does the same thing you get with collagen, hydration and elasticity (“Yes — both raise hydration and elasticity in trials, and on those two measures the effect sizes look similar.”)

“ No — hyaluronic acid is not doing what that collagen trial measured, and the one trial in women with thin, fragile skin like yours says collagen doesn’t either.

Tally: 14 sources found that bear on the answer · 10 read whole (downloaded) · 4 not opened.

The New Zealand trial (Gordon, Massey PhD thesis 2024, CHAMP study; thesis, read whole). 82 women ≥50, 15 g bovine collagen vs 15 g milk protein vs maltodextrin, ~4 months, government-funded, companies had no role. Inner-forearm dermal thickness rose about 9–12% within the collagen group and not the others — but only one site had a real between-group difference, the collagen group started thinnest there, and the author’s own verdict is “inconclusive.” Stanfield’s “9 of 10 measures ahead” is his count of directions, not significant results. Human trial (randomized), exploratory.

The thickness signal is valid because CHAMP ran a proper between-group test at the upper inner forearm and collagen won it (p = 0.033) at a dose, 15 g, that no null trial has matched — that is a real finding, and when I said “no evidence” earlier I was wrong. I weight it below a settled result because it is one site out of five in a 25-per-group trial, in a thesis chapter from a first-time ultrasound operator who documents her own measurement errors, with a placebo group that rose 10% at the cheek, a collagen group that started thinnest at the winning site, and no replication — while the one longer, biopsy-backed trial found nothing at a third of the dose. So: valid, unreplicated, and probably smaller than 10% — a reason to try it if you want to, not a reason to be surprised if it does nothing.

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#246

I take collagen daily and yes, I notice a great deal of dermal thickening. I love it!

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