Rapamycin Webinar and Dr. Green

Maybe he’s running an n=1 repeat of that glioblastoma/Rapamycin study way back…I think it was 2mg/day. He’s postulated about wanting to get Rapamycin to cross the BBB. I don’t think he’s signed up for a craniotomy, so perhaps he’s evaluating a new method of measuring brain levels mTOR and/or Rapamycin?

Unfortunately, he certainly has caused more dialog by being vague.

I guess he will be forthcoming at some point… when ready.

Indeed, I communicated with Dr. Green about a week ago and he said that he was on 12mg every week. So this info yesterday about the 12 mg on consecutive days then again 12 days later caught me by surprise.

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LOL! My daddy used to use the SWAG method in his work at the finance dept of our county government when he had to make predictions for spending for upcoming projects for the next year or whatever, but he always said it was Scientific Wild Ass Guess. I wish I knew about rapamycin sooner, and maybe he would still be here.

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Yes… I agree we could all have helped our parents.

But… it’s not too late for us… 15 more years of health… to enjoy an extra generation of family.

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I watched a Dr Green video (I think he has a youtube channel) explaining his rational for 14 day dosing of higher dosages:

  • The antiaging efficacy (per Green) is in the differential between the blood low vs the high (right after dosing).
  • which is why wait 14 days for nearly 100% of the rapa to be out of the blood, then boom, the high dose.
  • a saw tooth blood curve. The 7 day dosing causes a lower high to low ratio.
  • Repeat; Green’s theory is that the its the high ratio of high vs low (near zero) that causes the anti aging benefit.

Now, its long over due for the experiements on what period, what dose level offers the best results… Just offering my re-wording Greens rational.

Best to all.

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I find Dr Green’s lack of consistency a little concerning. He seems to change his personal protocol every other month…

It would be great if MK could get Peter Attia on the next AMA. At the very least he would offer more articulate and concise answers!

I found it interesting that in the clip played at the start of the webinar PA says he is now prescribing rapamycin to his patients. That was not the case when he was last directly asked so clearly he has seen something in the data that convinces him that it is both safe and beneficial…

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I, too, think we are flying blind. Dosing seems all over the map.

We need a study of the different dosing regimens and the blood levels. That would help quite a bit. At least we could know that we are not killing ourselves.

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Yeah, I see your point.
I think in Alan’s case he’s considering that he’s almost 80 and has a cardiomyopathy on top of it. He feels that for him higher doses are necessary so he’s basically climbing his way up but not necessarily based on any new data.
I have to say that from my vantage point I’m more concerned about Blagosklonny’s new regimen.
I wonder if they discussed side effect data from the study that they’re running?

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I’m a patient of Dr. Green and he put me on a 5mg/week dosing cycle. I told him recently that I took myself up to 6mg and he said he would not recommend that I go any higher (m48).

It’s difficult to follow his leadership when his message changes so frequently without clear explanation of why it changes.

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Yes. I haved posted this in other threads.

Review;

The “Pursuit of Ignorance” Drives All Science: Watch Neuroscientist Stuart Firestein’s Engaging TED Talk from 2013

Stuart Firestein book titled;
“Ignorance: How It Drives Science”

In my opinion is worth reading or in my case I listened to the Audible version.

We are all searching for the black cat in the dark room.

As a physician, his first oath is to “do no harm”, so it’s only natural for him to be more conservative with his patients while allowing himself to be a bit more “experimental” with himself.

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Indeed. It’s not a slam. I’d just like to better understand his process as he tends to speak in absolutes.

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As a pathologist, you could argue that his process is “first, do harm” :blush:

David8r: Might I ask how old you are? My understanding is the older you are when you start the higher dose of rapamycin you need to take. I am 81 and started with 5 mg/wk and worked my way up to 20mg with grapefruit juice every two weeks. That gave me a minor diarrhea problem. I went back to 10mg every two weeks with no problems. Now I am taking 12 mg weekly with grapefruit juice, olive oil, and piperine. So far no problems. I will take this dose for a while then get my blood work checked and see the results.
Yes, I am experimenting on myself, something I would not recommend to younger people with obligations. Fortunately, at my age, I feel I can take my chances. If I croak at the gym tomorrow, no big deal.

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I’m 51, and yes perhaps the dose needs to go up with age (but do we even really know that for a fact?). We’re all just doing the best we can and taking our chances based on the data we do (or don’t) have.

In any case, I’m just speculating on Dr Green’s motivation (being more conservative w/patients vs himself), not the correctness/incorrectness of it. From a medical liability perspective, being more conservative with patients also likely helps protect him against liability. After all, he’s not going to sue himself if he takes too high of a dose.

“Venezuelan man, crowned world’s oldest, marks 113th birthday Friday”

Well, we can talk about life extenders like rapamycin, good eating habits, etc., all we want, read scientific papers, but nothing beats being in a lucky gene pool.
But, it makes you think how long this guy could live if he was taking rapamycin, not drinking, etc.

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If the purpose of high dosage is to let sirolimus cross BBB, i think they should try everolimus instead. Generic version of everolimus is available from India. Klawitter’s 2015 paper stated: “One of the key differences between sirolimus and everolimus in these studies was that at therapeutically relevant concentrations everolimus, but not sirolimus, could distribute into brain mitochondria”.

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Agreed… see discussion here (blood brain barrier)

Matt Kaeberlein wrote an article in which he said that in rodent experiments, the higher the dose of rapamycin, the longer they lived, and that no one has found the upper dose yet. I think this is driving a lot of the dosage experimentation.

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