So my question is: Why do you feel the need to increase your testosterone levels?
I have been following this thread and fail to see what all the fuss is about. Does rapamycin decrease testosterone levels? Do your wrists feel weak? Do you feel you are not hairy enough?
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Why ? Actually Rapamycin can take testosterone down and up⌠morning wood effect.
Hmmmm⌠let me thinkâŚreasons to do TRT Includes the beneficial effects on mood, energy levels and patientsâ sense of well-being, sexual function, lean body mass and muscle strength, erythropoiesis and bone mineral density (BMD), cognition and some benefits on cardiovascular risk factors. And hairy arms, legs and torsoâŚ
Yep. All the above! Definitely feel it. Not throwing in the towel⌠going a few more rounds. 
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âIncludes the beneficial effects on mood, energy levels and patientsâ sense of well-being, sexual function, lean body mass and muscle strength.â
Well, I am good on all of that, however, I am not hairy and I donât take TRT.
Just sayin
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Hard to explain benefits if you have never had it.
I do think it is one of the things with rapa pushing my biological age back 14 to 27 years - depending on the blood or spit test. And looking and feeling it.
Donât want to look good for my age⌠going for looking good. Lol.
Definitely like what I see in the mirror at the gym. If I can stay here 10 years more⌠I am happy.
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I think I will start taking this. MB thinks it may mitigate the potential side effects that rapamycin might have on beta cells.
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Yes, personally I do think it balances a lot of things can help MTOR2 muscle growth and strength when MTOR1 is back on. I have been using TRT 2 years and 4 months in tandem with rapa - no negative issues - all positive. Helps bone, muscle, mental health⌠sexual health - ummm⌠why not use it. My TRT is covered by insurance - no issues.
Also, many recent articles are now back tracking the heart concern issues or body damage once used as a deterrent to using TRT have been proven wrong. I feel sorry for all the men with GPâs saying your âTâ good enough for an old man.
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This being Tadalafil! assuming I am approved for a prescription.
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Hahaha - whoops⌠my urologist has had me on tadalafil 2mg daily since my last check about a year now. He renewed my prescription - no problem.
Hey, 20 year old guys donât have Prostate Cancer. 50-80 year oldâs do, when the estrogen overtakes the testosterone. So T is protective. I also take Anastrozole to kill estrogen.
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True, but what are normal estradiol levels in a 20 year olds? Answer may surprise you 
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Steroid users donât seem to want estrogen to be completely gone, even for males, just in the normal range?
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Just came across this article in Menâs Health:
For those that canât access, have copied some parts of the article below:
IS T THE KEY TO VITALITY?
THIS MIGHTY HORMONE IS BEING PEDDLED AS A WAY TO GET EVERYTHING YOU WANTâSTRENGTH, ENERGY, AND A HEALTHIER AND LONGER LIFE. BUT HOW MUCH TESTOSTERONE DO YOU REALLY NEED?
FOR A LONG TIME, we accepted certain changes as the price (and privilege) of getting older. Your hair turns gray. Your hearing starts to. . .wait, what was that you said? And, of course, your testosterone level drops. But with a boom in testosterone-replacement clinicsâby this point, who hasnât gotten an ad for a service offering to test your T for under $100?âand podcasts and influencers preaching the powers of hormone optimization, should guys over 40 think about winding back their T clocks? And by how much? Hereâs what to know.
T CAN HELP YOU LIVE LONGER
A SHORTAGE of testosterone is associated with a shorter life. âWe now have several decades of high-quality research showing remarkable longevity and health benefits in men with normal testosterone levels compared with men with low levels,â says Abraham Morgentaler, M.D., at Harvard Medical School and the author of Testosterone for Life. Thatâs true whether guys have healthy levels naturally or underwent testosterone-replacement therapy to bring their levels out of the low range.
T CAN MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER, TOO
FEELING YOUNG and alive often boils down to a few things, says Dr. Morgentaler: being strong, staying active, and having the energy to do the activities you enjoy. âMen with low T often lose many of those things; people say they feel old,â he adds. âNot only do men feel better with normal testosterone levels, but for a whole variety of general medical and health issues, they actually are better.â That means improvements in sexual function, physical function, and mood, according to a major study in The New England Journal of Medicine in 2016.
BUT TESTOSTERONE LEVELS DECLINE WITH AGE
A MANâS TESTOSTERONE level drops about 1 to 2 percent a year, starting around age 40. Docs generally donât prescribe T replacement unless a guyâs level is low (less than 300 ng/dL) and he has symptoms of testosterone deficiency: reduced libido, erectile dysfunction, fatigue, lack of motivation, insomnia, depression, reduced muscle mass, and weight gain.
Yet even without symptoms, men are clamoring to replace that age-related loss, because why wouldnât you want your level to be the same at 60 as it was at 30? Bradley Anawalt, M.D., a professor of medicine at the University of Washington School of Medicine, echoes the reasoning of other top testosterone researchers when he says, âThe simple answer is that we do not know if it is beneficial or harmful to give testosterone to a man whose concentration drops with aging.â If your T level is in the gigantic normal range (264 to 916 ng/dL) and youâre not experiencing any low-T symptoms, itâs hard to argue that you need more of it.
âThereâs what I call a âthreshold effect.â Once youâre above it, youâre just normal; itâs hard to be more normal than normal,â says Dr. Morgentaler. âFor the most part, somebody who has normal testosterone levels will not notice anything if he takes some testosterone and goes into the upper range.â Or as Dr. Anawalt puts it, âThe difference between a level of 450 or 445 is clinically nonsense. From day to day, you can have a variation of about 10 to 20 percent, and within the day, you can have a variation of about 5 to 35 percent.â So wanting to correct for that 1 to 2 percent a year is understandable, but top researchers arenât willing to encourage you to go for it yet.
THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO PREVENT AGE-RELATED MUSCLE LOSS
ITâS TRUE that you lose muscle fibers as you get older. While testosterone increases muscle strength and mass, hormone replacement might not be able to prevent muscle-fiber loss. âIt just makes the muscle fibers that remain bigger,â says Dr. Anawalt, and itâs not certain that this has age-reversing benefits. But if you have a deficiency, T therapy can restore vitality and may help motivate you to do the workouts that will build muscle strength and mass.
HOW TO KNOW IF YOUâRE NORMAL FOR YOUR AGE
BEWARE ANYONE telling you that you, at 30, 40, 50, or even 60, have the testosterone level of a 70-year-old. There is a giant reference range regardless of age, so at 70, ânormalâ remains within a 650-point span. âIf you take 10,000 men who are 20 years old, the average testosterone might be 550 or 500,â says Dr. Anawalt. âThe average testosterone in 10,000 70-year-olds might be 380 or 400. But theyâre both in the normal range. It doesnât mean you have the testosterone of a 70-year-old when you have a testosterone of 400 at age 20.â You have a normal level for both ages.
Thereâs a movement by influencers and early adopters to stack up your level against yourself, not against other people your age. They advocate getting a baseline testosterone test early in life (or now, if you didnât do it in your 20s or 30s), so you can see how your levels compare later on. The test fee may or may not turn out to be a good investment.
WHEN NOT TO TAKE T
TESTOSTERONE THERAPY isnât recommended if you hope to start a family. When youâre on it, your body produces less T and, in turn, fewer or no sperm. Most of the time, when you stop T therapy, production returns, but not always like before.
Later this year, the results of a blockbuster testosterone trial should answer lingering questions about Tâs cardiovascular safety and benefits.
But doctors make it clear that if your level is low and youâre suffering, you can benefit from increasing it. In other words, the benefit-to-risk ratio is favorable when you treat the right people (those with testosterone deficiency). âTestosterone has a bad rap,â says Dr. Morgentaler, as itâs been associated with bodybuilders and cheating athletes. Yet there are years of data on it; itâs been on the market since the 1930s.
Just make sure low T is whatâs causing your symptoms. Weight gain, fatigue, ED, and lack of motivation and concentration all have other causes. And obesity, smoking, excessive alcohol use, and a lack of sleep may also be responsible for low testosterone. Manage those and you may be able to naturally raise your testosterone level and improve the number and the quality of the years ahead. After all: âIf you have a garden with a bunch of overgrown weeds, planting more flowers is not necessarily going to make for a more beautiful garden,â Dr. Anawalt says. âYou need to actually get rid of the problem.â
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Iâm 75 and have been on T for almost 20 years. Without T, my T levels drop to below 300. Iâve always been cursed with high estrogen. I could never wear a T-shirt before 2007, when I had my man-boobs lipoed. I also take Anastrozole to counter Estrogen.Without my T, I cannot grow muscle. Since 2007, I have gone to the gym 3x a week and take Yoga 4x a week. But the biggest results came when I convinced my Rheumatolagist to let me take Rapa. I started in November 2022 at 6mg per week. Iâm at 10mg now and going to stop at 12. My weight has stayed at 187 (5â9") but my body composition has changed. I had a 36" waist and itâs 33 now. My chest is still at 44". But my pubic pad has flattened and so the fat has disappeared. I threw out all my UnderArmor Large shorts and shirts and now wear Medium Fitted. People do notice what I call âRapamycin Redistributionâ because thatâs what Rapa seems to do. Next is Acarbose. Lots of info on both at GetHealthspan.com
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So now Iâm more confused than when I started reading all 53 posts here. It seemed at the beginning of this thread that testosterone encourages MToR and thus should be anti-longevity (a fair number of people on this forum seem to have this opinion about muscle in general). But then there was discussion of people supplemting it who feel great (and look great â thatâs you, @Agetron!) who see protective effects. Then the discussion went toward debunking older myths about T promoting prostate cancer, etc. Then we had the Menâs Health article that references the Harvard team who see that Testosterone is correlated with longevity! So which is it? â is it pro-longevity, or anti-longevity? If it is at least neutral, there are many other reasons to take it anyway (Iâm not, but not against it).
Iâm happy to take it because Iâm already working out hard at the gym and, at 52, probably having more T would help. Iâve never tested it and donât necessary see a need. I have noticed that lifting heavy weights since the beginning of the year has done a few positive things such as very much increase my arm vein volumes, and I have morning wood every morning for the first time in 25-30 years (sorry for the over-share, but it is a physiological change) which I canât figure out if this is simply better cardiovascular health from the heavy weights (I was pretty healthy aerobic before but this is different) or is the heavy weights increasing my testosterone? Iâve never checked because my energy and youthful exuberance is very good, and I am still roughly as âinterestedâ as I was in my late-20s, and seem fully functional.
I have a friend who is encouraging me to âmicrodoseâ testosterone: heâs a bit younger than me but in terrific shape, and this is his âstackâ. (Heâs also single and makes it look like great funâŚ). I prefer to have fewer supplements on my âstackâ (fewer chances for side effects and unintended interactions) but if it is positive for longevity, and positive for building muscle health/energy, why wouldnât I at least consider it.?
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Exactly Stanny⌠I have gone from a 34 inch waist to 31⌠and still going down in belt notches.
However, my chest and shoulders are full and wide. The medical students call it being a Dorito chip shape. 
For me TRT and Rapamycin are a great combo for both feeling and looking youthful. As to Testosteroneâs potential damage - three different biological testsâŚblood, spit and blood panel indicate I am from 40 to 50 years old. At 65 years⌠I will take it.
There are also several studies that see waist size indicative of health and longevity.
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I take a weekly dose of Rapa and daily doses of Enclomiphene and testosterone gel. I havenât had any bloods yet, but for the first time in 50 years I have a little acne.
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Also â and now on a non-longevity note â doesnât more testosterone (supplemented) lead to more DHT and thus more hair loss (and potentially larger prostate)? If you take Finasteride or other similar molecule to reduce DHT, wonât DHT be forced back in the pathway into (free?) testosterone, so just taking Finasteride is a bit like taking excess testosterone? â am I understanding this correctly? (If I am, should the first step in âreplacingâ aging testosterone levels be to try Finasteride for a time to see where it pushes free T and then think about exogenous testosterone?)
Finasteride increases the circulating levels of testosterone which is peripherally aromatized to estrogens. Thus the use of finasteride in older males further shifts the hormonal balance towards estrogen excess.
From another paper which discusses hair recovery from but could be describing prostate shrinkage (a positive effect):
In view of this, it is very important to properly counsel patients about the treatment. In particular, the following facts need to be stressed:
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The drug is probably the best available to treat androgenetic alopecia and the only one to address the root of the problem.
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Its effects are proven.
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Several studies have shown its safety over long duration of administration. The dosage given (1 mg) is small and unlikely to cause side effects. Even in those cases where side effects were reported, the changes were found to be reversible.
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There are very few effective alternatives to the drug and it is therefore important for the patient not to stop the drug unless he experiences any side effects.
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The patient should contact the doctor for any advice, should he experience a side effect.
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Most importantly, the intake of the drug is totally voluntary, as male pattern hair loss is only a cosmetic condition and it is entirely up to the patient to take or not take the drug.
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The treating physician should provide full information about the drug to enable the patient to make an informed decision.
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It is better to avoid the drug for any patient who has prior history of oligospermia, infertility, particularly if he is newly married and is trying to raise a family.
In addition, the author also feels that in patients who are apprehensive about the side effects, it is worthwhile considering administration of lower daily doses or staggered pulse doses of the drug, to enhance patient compliance. As discussed earlier, there is sound rationale for such regimens. Plasma half life of finasteride is 6-8 hours and tissue binding is 4-5 days.[5] Doses of 0.2 mg are adequate to suppress both scalp skin and serum DHT levels. While 0.2 mg caused 55% DHT suppression, 5 mg per day achieved 69% DHT suppression. Efficacy has been demonstrated for all end points for finasteride at doses of 0.2 mg/day or higher, with 1 and 5 mg demonstrating similar efficacy that was superior to lower doses.[8,9,19] The drug may be therefore initially administered at 0.5 mg daily or one tablet alternate days, to gain confidence of the patient and the 1 mg/day dosage may be restored once patient is comfortable about the drug.
I donât take either, but Iâm starting to think they both could be beneficial â first starting with Finasteride (0.5mg daily to see if I react, and then 1mg daily), and see where my testosterone levels are from there. And then, if I feel I need more, some testosterone. Does this make sense to you?
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Hi All, apologies for bumping an older thread.
I am a 45yr old, navigating through my first 6 months of TRT. I have had 1mg of Sirolimus (rapamycin) for over a decade now, and it absolutely tanked my hormones and caused hypogonadism in addition to a raft of mental health issues. It was prescribed due to an autoimmune disorder called ALPS.
In January i was able to explore some trt and have been on primoteston (Testosterone Enantate) and pin a split dose of 125mg every 5 days.
Ive been reading about weekly use of Sirolimus rather than daily and the impact on training.
Im curious if i was doing an IM every 5 days when the weekly dose of Sirolimus would be optimal?
Recent blood work attached for thoughts.
Specialist appointment confirmed in two weeks.
Would love to hear whether anyone is in a similar situation?
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Hello! Fellow TRT user here! Welcome to our forum!
Nearly everyone here doses Rapa weekly between 1MG-12MG. Itâs the dosing strategy that has been recommended by most of the longevity researchers and community members.
My advice is to pin EOD (Every other day). Take your prescribed dose, multiply it by two and divide by seven and thatâll give you your EOD dose.
That way youâll never have to worry about a trough for TRT and youâll be able to fit your Rapa in where it fits your schedule best.
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Thanks mate.
Im currently prescribed Primoteston which is
(250 mg testosterone enanthate / equivalent to approximately 180 mg testosterone)
Essentially its 1mg every 10 days.
So thinking about your, would this look like 0.20ml EOD?
Thus far, ive been splitting it into half as its way easier.
Cheers
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