I am currently taking Rapamycin 5mg once a week and I exercise regularly.
Does anyone know if it would be advisable to stop exercising on the day I take Rapamycin or would it not make any difference?
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Welcome Richard… we are in a similar age range. Personally I try to give the MTOR1 shut off all it needs to clean up the cells before turning on MTOR2. So, in the past 2 plus years… I take about a day and half break from exercising after my dose. Some agree. Some don’t.
Same with TRT… only take it 4 days after my rapamycin dose so as not to conflict with what each is doing.
Pic this week
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I say just don’t overthink it and do whatever, it probably doesn’t matter too much in the big picture
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I just work out every other day regardless of whether it is a rapa dose day or not. The only thing that is obvious is a lack of soreness if rapa is in my system. All in all a plus. I seem to notice some rebound anabolism a week after the dose. Rapa causes me to lose a bit of weight which makes it hard to get stronger’ but the tradeoff in terms of muscle and joint pain is worth it.
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I also wonder about spiking MTOR through protein intake on day of rapamycin or even if high protein is even that useful around the day of rapamycin? Protein intake is important to prevent fraility and reduce sarcopenia (through MTOR?) I settled on not overthinking it and whatever if rapa is inhibiting the point of normal/above normal protein intake.
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All of this is guesswork, but I will throw out my n=1 nearly useless observations. I assume that exercise during rapamycin therapy is beneficial in tje same way that exercise during fasting is important. The exercise stimulus prevents muscle loss while allowing autophagy. I keep training logs for barbell training, heart rate and wattage for bike rides, and daily body weight. When I first started rapamycin therapy a few years ago it was like the greatest ped ever! My joint pains disappeared, and I was rapidly gaing strength with a standard dose of 6 mg weekly. Those gains plateaued after 8 months or so along with my body weight. I hit the gym and the buffet like I was on a mission, but my lifts progressed slowly. I upped the rapa dosage to 8 and then 10 mg per week, and I lost weight. I felt great, but I suspect my lipids at that time may gave been out of whack. (No data)
I lowered the rapa dosage down to 5 mg per week and my lifts and body weight started going up slowly again. My stomach started giving me discomfort a few months ago so I ate very little and discontinued rapamycin for a month. When I determined that I was not dying, I resumed eating and training. Gains came rapidly and I am now the strongest I gave ever been.
I had noticed for a couple of years that my best gains came 4 to 6 days after the weekly rapa dose, while my most comfortable workouts came the day after a rapa dose. (Subjective and possibly worthless)
I have decided to try to maximize this apparent rebound affect by taking Rapamycin with sardines in the morning followed by at least 48 hrs of fasting. I plan to do this every other month and see if I gain weight and strength a bit faster. There are a lot of variables to manipulate, but the exercise is one that I keep very consistent. Small increments are best to prevent injury and allow progress. Ymmv
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Do you think it was muscle or fat?
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I assume mostly fat since I did not get weaker yet my weight dropped. During my month of gastro problems ( intestinal metaplasia), I lost about 13 pounds of both fat and muscle. I admit it is hard to draw any conclusions since there ate so many things going on.
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Sunday is the only day I don’t exercise, and that’s the day I take my Rapamycin.
I don’t think it would affect anything if I did decide to exercise on Rapamycin dosing days, though . . . honestly, I haven’t noticed any effects (good or bad) from taking it yet. I’m up to 4mg per week now and it’s like taking sugar pills. Will keep upping the dose every week though!
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Rayk, was your intestinal metaplasia diagnosed via endoscopic biopsy? Do you believe your stomach issues were caused by rapamycin?
Yes. I had an endoscopic biopsy. It was positive for metaplasia in the stomach, but the esophagus was fine. A biopsy was tested for h pylori and was negative. Follow up fecal antigen test for h p was also negative. I assume the stomach problem was caused by over thirty years of alcohol, job stress, a crappy diet, and mass quantities of strong black coffee. I did have an h pylori infection 20 years ago. I discontinued Rapamycin along with most of everything else just because I felt bad. I ate only cooked carrots, pepto bismol, and canned tuna for a few days… Now that I am behaving myself the stomach is much better. Whether or not metaplasia can be regressed is unknown. I think rapa and senolytics may help.
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Hello Agetron, can you tell me what is TRT? Thanks, Richard
Are you taking the sardines as a source of protein or for another reason. That reminds me, I need to buy some as I enjoy the taste of them and have not had them for a long time.
There was a thread in which sardines were mentioned as a fatty meal that helps rapamycin absorption.
Hello RIchard S.
TRT - Testosterone Replacement Therapy, I have been on it for 4 years - started at age 61 years. I take a shot in the thigh (self given) once a week of 1 ml of 200mg cyupionate. Great for keeping off fat, building muscle , improved bone density, libido and energy level. At 60+ years I think a great combo with rapamycin.
WebMD link: Testosterone Replacement Therapy: Myths and Facts
Let me know if you have any other questions you can private message me too.
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I would have thought since Rapamycin has a similar affect to fasting maybe it would be better to do weight training when you are taking Rapamycin for muscle preservation. I know Peter Attia does heavy weight traing when fasting and take no attention to his Rapamycin intake. I have often done my own version of fast mimicking diet many times and always do weight training. I took Rapamycin yesterday and weight trained the same day. Today I will run 5 miles. I want to control Rapamycin not let it control me.
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Hi Brian.
I can appreciate your input… for my N=1 the past 2 and half years…the 30 hour exercise break has kept my muscle mass and my strength increased.
I also do weekly TRT… so I try to take my injection 4 days after rapamycin so the MTOR1 turn down doesn’t conflict with TRT and strength training turn on of MTOR2.
Well fasting also reduces Mtor but it is advised to weight train for muscle retainment. The science has not been researched enough to change lifestyles concerning fasting or Rapamycin. Considering most people who take Rapamycin are older their muscle mass is essential to keep. Sarcopenia and often serious bone fractures reduce many of the benefits of Rapamycin. An example with hip fractures. It has a 50% death rate during the next 12 months. Weight bearing exercise and running has special benefit for hip bone integrity. All this should be considered when fasting or supplents that mimic fasting
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I have been a daily exerciser for the last 6 years (57 yo male), 50 minutes resistance exercise followed by 3-5 km, Zone 2 run; combined 75 minutes/day. I am plant fat based ketogenic, one meal a day faster, and exercise just before dinner (my single meal), in the fully fasted state…NO issues exercise output/recovery or limiting my cardiovascular/muscular build over this time period (it’s only continuously improved).
I started this IM+IN therapeutic dose rapamycin overlay intervention 6 months ago (arguably the highest trough levels of any healthy human), and pay NO attention to dosing day/exercise, and have not seen ANY effects on my exercise regiment (even though I am clinically iron deficient anemic). I have NO idea (anyone who suggests otherwise or can tease out the perms and combs also has NO clue), the impact of HIGH dose rapamycin/exercise-dose taking/longevity.
Reminder Dr B says Rapamycin + Exercise is “optimal” protocol, no qualifications as far as I know.
I do know that being at very high percentile fitness (cardiovascular/skeletal muscle) leads to increased healthspan, and lifespan (proven studies in humans, too many to post), so it’s a non negotiable lifestyle intervention, regardless of my possible pharma interventions like rapamycin, which has never been proven to extend lifespan in healthy humans.
Currently, I am very muscular/toned, 95 percentile VO2max…never been in better physical shape in my life, including the last 6 months on therapeutic high dose rapamycin. I’ve actually increased my resistance exercise loading reps, not because of any boost from rapamycin or to compensate from, just a personal dial up to further trade residual fat for muscle, to lower my body fat %, whilst keeping total body mass approx same.
Am I blunting key tissue mTOR1 deactivation with this avalanche of sirolimus I am taking with chronic exercise? And thus diluting the longevity benefits? Is it all mTOR1 fundamentally or the gut microbiome remodelling instead? Or autophagy? Measuring autophagy in humans is not yet mainstream. Or is it REALLY mTOR2 as many suspect? Or some other pathway?
The next steps in my journey are to get deeper insights into what’s happening at tissue levels, trying to measure actual mTOR levels AND gut remodelling.
I would also love to do a radionuclide tagged rapamycin imaging analysis…and observe the tissue/organ biodistribution of the drug, especially how much if any crossing into the CNS/brain. A study was done in rats which showed IM was far superior to oral in elevating tissue levels of rapamycin, dose equivalency.
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This is not the case that most people fall and break a hip. People whose hip breaks by walking etc are in a state of fragility. Such people also break ribs when coughing. The evidence of supplements helping bone strength is weak even though this theory is still pushed by many supplents companies. True if are not getting enough of these minerals it helps but no so many are deficient. I do not eat dairy food so take calcium, magnesium and zinc every day. For people over 80 falling is a major hazhard
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