I know Peter Attia monitors his HR and lactate closely during his Z2 sessions so would be very interested to hear his experiences.
Maybe @mkaeberlein can ask!?
3 Likes
I was curious on others thoughts. So I was waiting to get blood work done next month, but I was thinking of starting rapamycin afterwards, but instead of continuous dosing throughout the year, I would do almost a pulse dosing where I would be on rapamycin for a couple months out of the year (lets say 3 months) and then be off it for the rest of the year. I am 24 turning 25 this year, and I was thinking of doing this so that
A) I would get benefits from being on rapamycin, and help protect aspects of my aging as I get older
B) I avoid potential complications from long term rapamycin use at a young age(if there is any).
C) it also would give me a glimpse of how rapamycin impacts my biomarkers on and off it to make a better decision on continuous use over my life. Also it may lead to insights of starting rapamycin in a younger age and help research in that way.
Just curious on thoughts
Yes, my workouts are much better 48 to 72 hours after taking Rapamycin
It may be because I have noticed a very positive mood swing starting 24 hrs after taking Rapamycin. My mood gets increasingly better to almost euphoric on day 3. Then, poof, it is gone and I am back to normal on day 4. I have been posting personal bests at the gym since starting Rapamycin.
No way to check that this is anything other than a placebo effect. I am currently using pulse dosing at 15mg once every 15 days. (Approx. 5 or so half-lives.)
I am 80+ yrs old., so I would not necessarily expect to see this effect in young people.
4 Likes
Dr. Peter Attia, in his recent discussion with Matt Kaeberlein where they talked about rapamycin use with younger people said he didn’t see it being used by anyone much younger than 25.
I can see your rationale for trying it out. Lower dose, pulsed use of rapamycin when you are younger seems like a reasonable approach as a way to learn more about how its impacting your body, combined with blood tests to actually measure the impact.
Please report back if you decide to do this. I’ve seen about half a dozen people in the age range from 25 to 32 who are using rapamycin. Some, like @LeeJohn , are trying higher doses, but most I see are using more moderate doses.
1 Like
definitely planned on doing that, is there anything else I should try to track during this period of rapamycin use or anything else in general?
Interesting question - yes, I think there are things that you may want to watch more closely if you’re implementing rapaycin at a younger age. It seems likely to be more difficult to track positive impacts because your body is functioning much better than people who are, say 50 years +.
I don’t think anyone has done this before - but given your science focus, PHD pursuit, etc. - you’d be in a great position to do this, if you can afford it (the rub, of course, is that testing costs $).
For example - it would be really interesting to track your visceral fat levels via DEXA scan. Unlike in most people - over the next decade you should not see a significant increase increase in visceral fat if you are taking rapamycin.
Similarly, muscle and grip strength should not decrease, etc.
Perhaps review this document (The case for taking rapamycin when younger) and related research and try to help us develop a tracking methodology for younger people using rapamycin that other people can refer to. Given your science-background you would be a great person to draft something like this.
Are you at a university that has a exercise physiology lab? That would be a great place to start - get all your baseline data - VO2Max, visceral fat, etc…
And then other physiology markers - hearing, eyesight, sperm motility (perhaps they will tell you if you donate), etc.
Another idea is to volunteer for some medical clinical trials that measure biomarkers that might be of interest - you could be in the control group. For example there is a lot of research that suggests that Rapamycin use improves heart function as measured by ejection fraction. There are clinical trials that measure this. I’ve actually contacted some researchers from clinical trials listed on clinical trials.gov to participate in these types of research efforts, just so I can get these measurements done.
Perhaps other people have some ideas they can contribute… biomarkers to track when starting rapamycin when you are younger…
2 Likes
Interesting twitter post by Blagosklonny today:
5 Likes
I am at a school of medicine actually. Luckily there are places where I live(atlanta) that offer the DEXA scan, VO2Max and metabolic resting rate.
Plans & Pricing – Dexa Body
I definitely will look into the volunteering of clinical trials to get other markers measured.
I think one of the hard parts of tracking this will be other lifestyle changes such as diet changes, different exercise routines, other supplements that may impact my overall health span and biomarkers. I was thinking of just stopping everything I do in terms of supplementation and just try rapamycin for a couple months and then go back to get my blood work done to see if there is any noticeable improvements.
When I am going about the pulsing of rapamycin, how high should I try to work up to in my 3 months rapa period? and would it be better to start at 1mg/week and then end at 4-5 mg/week the last month or should I just start at a moderate dose.
I would like to know why Dr. Blagosklonny believes that 25 is the magic number. Also I what his regimen would be for a 25 year old on rapamycin. On top of that , The only thing I am worried about is effects on reproductive function as I plan on having kids in the next 5 years so I do not want to impact my ability to do so.
I think that he’s just going by the animal studies - the best lifespan improvements have been achieved in early adult age mice and high (highest) doses of rapamycin.
The risk of negative reproduction effects seem low to me (given that organ transplant recipients have been using rapamycin for decades while also having children) - but it would be wise to try to track this in your own case. If I were you, I’d read all the studies related to this - and see if there are some good tests that you can take that would help you track your fertility and identify any impacts. Most of us here have already had children - so are much less concerned about this possible issue.
It would be great if you could do some research on this and identify possible tests that could be done (I wonder if places that take sperm donor submissions do any sperm motility tests, etc. - that may be valuable in identifying any possible negative effects of rapamycin. Perhaps do the testing while taking rapamycin, and also during the pauses … to see (as we would expect) if any negative impact then reverses when you pause rapamycin.
See this page for added info.,
For example - this company in Atlanta accepts sperm donations and does the following tests:
- Each candidate provides a semen sample for analysis.
We assess sperm count, volume, motility, and additional factors to determine the quality of the donation.
Perhaps get this done regularly while taking rapamycin to see if there is any impact?
I will check it out
Also I asked earlier but just wanted to ask again to get thoughts on how I should dose my period
Personally, I liked how starting at 1mg / week, and then slowly increasing by 1mg per week until I got up to 5mg… then stayed their for a month, then increased to 6mg.
I hear some people report negative side effects and it seems to correlate a bit to ramping up faster. This is just all anecdotal of course. We don’t have good data really on this area.
2 Likes
SO I am thinking of participating in this study to get biomarkers done but also to see how my body responds to challenges.
Would be interested to see if rapamycin impacts any of these responses
Also in terms of rapamycin taking, should I wait until I am in a cardiovascular block of training to take it, or is it okay to take when I am in a muscle building phase?
1 Like
Yes - I love clinical trials like these were we can get extensive test information on our body - great find!
Regarding exercise cardio / vs. muscle and rapamycin - the research is unclear. Here is what one of the top rapamycin researchers had to say on the general topic (not specifically to your question but close):
1 Like
Another thing I need to figure out is how long I want to be on rapamycin before being off of it since I just am curious in the event it improves my biomarkers, how long those effects last. I also need to reach the rapamycin dosage that most see benefits without any side effects.
Yes - those issues are what we all face - and even harder I think for you because at your age everything is functioning extremely well (I would hope ;-). I think regular blood tests (monthly or very few months) would help you get a good handle on these issues.
Another cool thing about the trial is that they are doing a DEXA scan before hand and will give me the results that day. The unfortunate part is that the blood biomarkers wont be viewable until the study is published.
1 Like
I am with Blagosklonny on this. I have NO IDEA if Rapamycin will extend my healthspan/lifespan, but I’m not soley banking on it. The only proven lifestyle intervention that categorically increases human lifespan is cardiorespiratory fitness. Being in the very highest percentile of V02 max easily adds 5-7 yrs to lifespan. I do daily intense cardio/resistance training 7 days/week, including Rapamycin dosing days. I have not noticed any impact on my exercise during/post. Being super fit, lean (adipose tissue is inflammatory), muscular, with superior cardio respiratory fitness is my #1 lifestyle intervention. Rapamycin, strict keto (plant fat based), one meal day time restricted feeding, exogenous testosterone, basket of supplements, every 8 week phlebotomy (Iron dumping, huge longevity basket opportunity IMHO) these are all add-ons. Having elevated ketones area under the curve (inversely lowest glucose/insulin) is its own huge longevity signal…ancestrally preserved (a thread unto itself). I have never looked or felt better in my life (57 yo male).
8 Likes