Sheesh… that seems like an overly harsh comparison for rapamycin. There have been two decades, and thousands of studies on rapamycin and its an FDA approved drug for 20+ years - so I don’t think its at all like LSD, even at low doses.
I’m trying to think of a comparable drug… Metformin is somewhat similar but doesn’t have the stigma of association with “organ transplants and immune suppression” but also doesn’t have the lifespan benefit of 15% to 30% increase in animals - so its not the best comparison.
I looked at the list of most commonly prescribed off-label drugs - and can only see one that is somewhat comparable - Gabapentin. It was originally sold as an anti-convulant, anti-seizure medicine - but since then has broadened to all sorts of applications - from anxiety and stress, to pain, and many more areas. So I think that might be the best camparison… it came from a slightly scary application (seizures) and then went on to conquer the world of many other applications… but again here seizures don’t have quite the same concern as “immune suppression” (more accurately “immune modulation”) with rapamycin.
Think about how many “celebs” that Peter Attia has reached with his podcasts, as well as podcasts with Tim Ferriss and Joe Rogan? Now - think about what would happen if Tim Ferriss, or Joe Rogan, announced great results with their use of rapamycin on their podcast… I think you could see Rapamycin become the new “Aspirin” overnight… at least “overnight” in historical terms
I don’t think the dog trials will have that much effect except for experimenters like those already here. The reason is simple: most people rely on their healthcare professional for advice and unless and until there are human clinical trials for aging and rapamycin, they will steer away from recommending it. There are several issues here: they are busy and don’t have the time to read papers, they worry about legal liability in prescribing drugs off label, and rapamycin has a bad reputation because it was initially labelled an immune system suppresant instead of immune modulator. What doctor is going to tell a healthy person to suppress their immune system? I recently spoke with a medical doctor who is taking metformin for anti-aging and asked innocently if she also would consider rapamycin. “It’s too dangerous,” she replied with an emphatic no.
I don’t look at low-dose LSD harshly, though I’ve never done it. Much of the positive research coming out now is remarkable. However, I take your point that there is much more research on rapamycin. Probably your comparison of Gabapentin is more apt.
Perhaps an even more interesting question is – if, may it be so, there is wide interest in rapamycin for reducing aging, will there also be interest in research on other therapies? The recent post on Altos is encouraging (modern Medici’s may have some social benefit after all ) Bezos' Altos Labs Officially Launches with $3 Billion in Funding
There are advances in science & technology that aren’t per se about aging research. For example, I can imagine that effective therapies would not be best administered orally, but directly into the blood. If continuous glucose monitors can be inserted subcutaneously, I would think it could be possible to develop ways to deliver drugs. [I’m not so fond of needles.]
There are also people working on ways to package drugs to go to their target location & then dissolve the wrapper, to target therapies very specifically. I think the things being investigated at the Institute for Protein Design are magical & hopefully someday will be very useful.
There are, mho, a lot of possibilities that can turn into everyday with enough work being applied, which means putting money & resources into useful directions.
Yep, although I think the controlled setting doesn’t allow for a good experience. It’s also hard to control for these substances as in reality , someone will know if they are on psychedelics vs placebo. I have had some personal experience with micro dosing and do find mood enhancements. Although I think psychedelics get the best use out of full dosing for a “trip”. I am glad they are moving the goal post though in terms of safety and have been up to date in this research field as I want to actually do research in this field in the future. I think there is a lot of promise in psychedelics(like rapamycin) although I do not think rapamycin comes with the perceived negative stigma nor risk’s that psychedelics are perceived to happen under uncontrolled settings.
I predict a well-made documentary will blast Rapa into the mainstream consciousness. I’m not aware of one that exists or is in process, but if you know of a documentary film maker this is a giant pot of gold. After all, it’s about extending the life of dogs (EVERYONE loves their dog; look at the growing costs of dog healthcare) and boomers are now getting very afraid about losing it all.
I’m not sure an influential celebrity will do It. The requirement for off-label use could make them look fringy and vain.
Perhaps a well-written book could get there. If you’re an author, I recommend something short and profoundly hopeful.
Short of all this, I think it could take 10-20 years for the humans actually using rapa to show dramatic (hopefully) positive results.
I note from the poll that over 50% of people here think it will be mainstream within 5 years. 60% within 7 years. Someone reading this board may need to stand up and be the evangelist.
Not sure how much they will cover rapamycin in this documentaries, but they are coming out soon I think. And, the results from the Dog Aging Study with rapamycin are due out in 2026.
You mentioned “a group of doctors” from the UK. Would you be able to tell us who these are as from what I see there’s only one doctor right now in the UK who is able to prescribe. Thanks
Brian, for what it is worth our Scooter a Goldendoodle has qualified for the Dog Aging Project, i.e. 7+ yrs old 50lbs, and will be in the study. I was reluctant because I am a believer and was reticent to get the placebo. Note: I just got my Sirolimus from India. Not a hitch and delivered in about a week. I will post the source under “where to get …”.
Fondy, Coach
There are different levels of mainstream, I think.
My prediction is: 5 years for it to become as mainstream as TRT. Basically, it will still be something that 98% of people don’t do, but something that is easily accessible by anyone who wants it.
I think it’s not going to become mainstream mainstream until there are human studies that show efficacy so that insurance companies will cover it. Most people are never going to take a drug that their regular doctor doesn’t prescribe and that insurance doesn’t cover.
Have you been to a Labcorp office to get your blood draw?
I suspect they’d quickly kick us out if we tried to bring a dog in there for a blood draw. I have this funny image in my mind of you sitting in the blood draw chair with a 80lb dog on your lap, trying to fit the blood pressure cuff on your dog and find the vein in his front leg…
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