The results are given in the NIA page RA linked.
The NIA page doesn’t have the results. And it’s not up-to-date, for instance, it says that “Astaxanthin” is still “In Progress”.
I’m talking about something like this but up-to-date: a clear spreadsheet with all interventions (inc. details of dose and age) and detailed results by gender, median increase, max increase, p-value, etc.
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No - I don’t think anyone has done it yet. Please post if you run across something like this.
Whats their prices? Have you gotn quotes?
Actually, Apollo Ventures did it! I didn’t notice it, but they’ve just added “Update 12.2023” in the title, updated the image to show Asta, Mec, Fisetin, and other recently tested drugs, and updated the text accordingly (e.g., “The recent ITP Paper published a fairly famous failure: The compound Fisetin did not show any lifespan benefit using the established treatment protocol based in cohorts commencing with treatment in 2018 and 2019.”).
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Well I can’t find a source for 17 a-estrodiol so where would one find 16-Hydroxy estriol?
Would like to hear Miller’s rationale for the dose of astaxanthin used as it so out of line (extremely high) with supplemental and dietary sources which are typically < 10 mg.
Another example in which paper authors fail to translate doses used into human equivalent and typical human consumption to help put study results in context.
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They asked the funders of the study, multiple researchers etc which dosage would be best to test.
I just wanted to drop an anecdote, and hopefully this is an okay place to do it. I came to this forum looking for ways to improve a chronic health condition I have that causes inflammation to my joints, lungs, lymph nodes, and gives me heart palpitations. I’m not even sure what the specific condition is. But I tried rapamycin and it worsened the inflammation quite significantly and caused more pain even at smaller doses (and because of the half life would last a long time). Specifically Biocon Sirolimus.
However, I have also tried meclizine now and it seems to actually improve my condition a quite notable amount (which is very rare to see based on the success rate of other things I’ve tried), it can decrease the swelling of my joints a decent amount, and it doesn’t cause me the same problems rapamycin did. I’m not sure if this is because of mtor effects, or something else, but looking around there was a bit of research showing meclizine decreased osteoclast activity, and osteoclast generation. There may be more to its (potential) positive effects aside from just affecting mtor.
In terms of side effects, I seem fine, even up to 50mg twice a day (as long as I avoid the kind with lactose in it), just a bit more dry eyes. I don’t know if it is good to necessarily take this much though.
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Hi - and welcome to the forums. Thanks for posting your experience. I find it really strange that you had good results with meclizine and negative results with rapamycin…
The entire reason we cover meclizine here is because of this new research - also covered here: Meclizine / Dramamine II, Approx 15% Lifespan Increase, Another mTORC1 Inhibitor
That says meclizine does much the same thing as rapamycin, at least when it comes to mTOR.
Glad to hear you’re doing better with meclizine, but I have no idea why you’ve had the experiences you have; rapamycin is supposed to be (and in my experience is) a great inflammation reducer.
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I know it’s very strange, I tried many times though and adjusted the dose each time and it was still just very bad for me. I’m beyond confident
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My doctor said “I looked at the AX3 and it has corn starch and glucose syrup, not ideal” - what are people’s thoughts?
Are those things in a high enough amount to be negative or just trace amounts?
Also adding @LVareilles @Vlasko
On the one hand, your doctor is right - those would not seem to be ideal ingredients. But - on the other hand, we have lifespan studies from the top group doing lifespan studies (in mice) with great results. So, obviously the downsides of these two ingredients (which, as you suggest, are likely just trace amounts) don’t significantly negatively impact the benefits.
Given the choice between a product that has proven itself in ITP lifespan studies (even if it has some small amount of undesirable elements) vs. an unproven compound (without these elements) - I would choose the proven compound every time.
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‘Not ideal’ but not remotely worth worrying about. There’s going to be like 100 mg of these as fillers, max. And as RapAdmin says, this is the stuff that just extended max LS (and very high doses) in the ITP and is reported to have better ADME than the natural stuff that everyone else sells.
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Both the corn starch and the glucose syrup are just glucose, and in a trace amount. I wouldn’t worry about that. I’d worry about the cost.
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It is an antihistamine, if that means anything to you.
What kind of hyperoptimizer are they, does your doctor do everything optimally already?
The Effects of Astaxanthin on Cognitive Function and Neurodegeneration in Humans: A Critical Review
Oxidative stress is a key contributing factor in neurodegeneration, cognitive ageing, cognitive decline, and diminished cognitive longevity. Issues stemming from oxidative stress both in relation to cognition and other areas, such as inflammation, skin health, eye health, and general recovery, have been shown to benefit greatly from antioxidant use. Astaxanthin is a potent antioxidant, which has been outlined to be beneficial for cognitive function both in vitro and in vivo. Given the aforementioned promising effects, research into astaxanthin with a focus on cognitive function has recently been extended to human tissue and human populations. The present critical review explores the effects of astaxanthin on cognitive function and neurodegeneration within human populations and samples with the aim of deciphering the merit and credibility of the research findings and subsequently their potential as a basis for therapeutic use. Implications, limitations, and areas for future research development are also discussed. Key findings include the positive impacts of astaxanthin in relation to improving cognitive function, facilitating neuroprotection, and slowing neurodegeneration within given contexts.
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Hi all, my first post here, coincidentally I’ve been recently diving into the benefits of Astaxanthin and have some perplexities about the ITP study.
I appreciate the scientific rigor and attention to detail that govern this discussion, but I cannot wonder whether the ITP paper has been a useful intervention at all.
First of all the use of synthetic astaxanthin, which according to the experts consulted (and some literature) was the best guarantee of success. I think the purity of the molecule has governed the decision here, but apparently, according to the many hours of podcasts from researchers from companies producing astaxanthin (a little conflict of interest, but those researchers are very credible and papers have been cited) usually natural Asta from Haematococcus Pluvialis is considered to be many times more effective in antioxidant power and in the benefits delivered (skin, eyes, cognitive, athletic and more).
Now, the ITP paper cites literature which is affirming the opposite (synthetic= much better than natural). So we have heavily conflicting sources. What makes me wonder a lot though, is the absolute impracticality, discussed in the above posts, of the dosage used in mice. All right, the reasons have been exposed, but to all practical effects this study is just about useless in human supplementation.
At this point, I’m also wondering if it has any advantage to repeat the experiment with a lower albeit still impractical dosage. I’m also wondering if the results in mice can be exported at all to humans, considering all conversions made to the dosage used.
But at the end, leaving aside all pessimistic considerations, the most useful study would be to administer to mice the equivalent of a human 10 to 20 mg daily dosage, something which is totally compatible with the product affordability and the potential adverse effects.
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The dosing of astaxanthin is interesting for anyone who has read the other thread on it. It turns out that the 12% like span benefit was achieved with a much lower dose than targeted.
“The present ITP study is the first evaluation of Asta in a mammalian lifespan model, so the target dose of 4000 ppm in the diet is based on chronic mammalian studies other than lifespan. Despite the fact that the average diet contained 1840 ppm Asta (only 46% of the target), median lifespans of male UM-HET3 mice were significantly improved”
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…so the target dose of 4000 ppm in the diet is based on chronic mammalian studies other than lifespan
The above kinda makes me cringe, if the conversions carried out in the preceding posts are right, the mammalians previously studied have been subjected to the equivalent of Gigadoses, or perhaps Teradoses, in human terms.
Again, the usual dosage advised to humans is 4 mg/d, 16 mg/d max, so at 1500 mg we would be at two orders of magnitude higher, taking the present upper threshold as a reference.
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