Sorry Steve - I thought we were talking about NMN?
Got my wires crossed, yes to NMN as providing a potential Pace improvement.
But I think the senolytic program may have had more influence.
The reason I think that is 4 other people followed a 7 month protocol on it (no NMN or NR) and every one had an improvement in their TruDiagnostic scores, including Pace.
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It’s wishful thinking to expect such low doses of apigenin to have significant effects on NAD+ levels. It’s oral bioavailability is far too low for that. I think it’s misleading to promote it as a supplement to increase NAD+ levels IMO.
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In part yes, but it’s mainly a matter of bioavailability. Apigenin is heavily metabolized in the intestines and by the liver in rodents and humans. In mice, this results in very low bioavailability, in humans it’s even worse, since they metabolize it even more strongly.
IIRC, the main study that found that apigenin inhibited CD38 in vivo and created interest in apigenin as a means to inhibit CD38 was a mouse study that use very high doses given intraperitoneally. The intraperitoneal route bypasses the intestines and liver. The mice would need a lot higher oral doses to get the same amount in your blood as they got with the intraperitoneal injection.
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There is a case study about a patient drinking parsley juice daily. The levels of sirolimus increased dramatically. Was it an effect of the apigenin in the parsley? Or something else in the parsley?
And starting at 1.25.50 this video digs deep into the NMN and NR question. Including strongly advising against intrevenous NAD at 1,52,24
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It’s hard to say. Apigenin has some CYP3A4 inhibitory activity so it could be the apigenin. However it could also be something else in the parsley, I’m not sure. Characterization of the CYP3A4 Enzyme Inhibition Potential of Selected Flavonoids - PubMed
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I always wonder why a poorly studied compound like apigenin is promoted and consumed as a NAD+ booster when there compounds like NMN and NR that have significantly more human studies showing that these 2 do increase NAD+ and the doses that work.
Reinventing the wheel is not my thing. So I alternate between NR and NMN, generally 3 month cycles.
And I’ve seen my telomeres increase consistently via TrueDiagnostic testing with 5 tests over 4 years. Should have my TD test result #6 in a few weeks.
And the whole hype around NAD+ IV’s that don’t work.
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I don’t know about which of NR, NMN, nicotinic acid, nicotinamide, etc. is best, but I did learn a few things in this interview with Brenner:
One thing I learned is that NAD+ measures in plasma can be misleading. The number can seem to be low, yet mitochondria have an adequate (or even abundant) amount. So, for example, those times when Michael Lustgarten thought his NAD levels were sub-optomal based on a blood test, he might have had optimal amounts for his mitochondria.
One thing I expected to see him do – and he didn’t disappoint – was to downplay potential competitors to NR. E.g. when he was asked about CD38 inhibitors, he said something like that the podcast was going astray and that there just isn’t any good reason to believe it’s a good idea to try.
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Dr Greger on attempting to boost NAD+ with supplements.
My impression is that supplements are a waste of money in attempting to increase intracellular NAD+
The Best Way to Boost NAD+: Supplements vs. Diet (webinar recording)
NAD+ has no way to “work” as an exogenous product, neither orally nor subQ nor IV.
As a molecule it cannot penetrate the cell membrane and must be metabolized into the precursors NR and NMN before the cells can use it.
NAD+ is a waste of money.
With a Perplexity search with NO guradrails, it picks up the internet, clinic, influencer mis-information.
Then with the added guardrail of “use only clinical studies published in reputable journals, NO influencers, NO youtube, NO clinics” the results change and the science is revealed.
nad+ what is the typical dose used in clinics prov (1).pdf (520.6 KB)
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I have been taking nmn for a really long time…5y 10y maybe?
I take around 350mg these days
I read jinfiniti blog which states NR enters cells more easily as it is smaller than NMN
So today i tried NR tartate salt like 350mg and wow it felt like the lights inside of me go turned on. Super energetic. Brain switch went on.
I think the difference is NR is converted to NAM or nicotinamide in blood whereas NMN is stil NMN in blood. The NAM in my blood is making me super hyper. I was exercising today and I ran almost 50% farther and i felt i could go for round 2 after a short rest.
I think i will swtich to NR for a bit then maybe a mix of NR and nmn haha
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NR titrate salt: do you buy this? or make it yourself? do you have any brand recommendations for NR?
U can buy tru niagen, it is the patented one but it is expensive. I bought this maybe 10 years ago before nmn became mass market…haha.
I bought California Gold Nutrition Nicotinamide Riboside Tartrate on iherb.com
Its basically a different salt of NR and its a lot cheaper.
I can also recommend thorne niacel, i used it before.
They are all the same actually, all NR.
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Thank you! very helpful.
i think the NR is broken down into nicotinamide in the blood which is why I feel super amped…
its basically vitamin b3.
but i take 250mg of NR tartrate which gives me about 150mg of NR and about 130mg of nicotinamide in my blood…the rda for nicotinamide is 30mg daily…i am at 4x that but b3 is water soluble and very safe
this reminds me why i originally switched to nmn years ago haha
super amped…feel like going to the gym and running 3x daily 
The super amped feeling is gone on the third day haha
I think my body has got used to it and probably is urinating the excess nicotinamide out more effectively now