My prescription meds have caused some sickness?

#1

So, a little background; I’ve been longevity supplementing for 3-4 years and I travel a lot. My current stack is as follows:

Novos (fisetin, magnesium. glycine, glucosamine sulfate, pterostilbene, hyaluronic acid, rhodiola rosea, l theanine, micro dosed lithium, vitamin c, malate, ginger, calcium alpha-ketoglutarate).
donotage sirt 6 activator
liposomal nmn/liposomal apigenin
psyllium husk
ginger with high gingerol
ceylon cinnamon
vitamins a/d/k/b6/b12/magnesium/zinc/copper
krill oil with astaxanthin
beef liver
melatonin 10 g
oregano oil/garlic

maybe 1 or 2 things I am forgetting

up until I started taking my prescription meds, my immune system was quite robust with how I supplemented, and I rarely got sick at home or traveling and can’t recall a food poisoning traveling while supplementing with these types of items without the prescription meds

while reading about some of the life extension of some prescription meds I added to this

Rapamycin 8 mg weekly (I unfortunately took it daily for one stretch of time, but mostly once weekly)
jardiance 25
acarbose 50
simvastatin 20/10ezetimibe (simvastatin 40 with no ezetimibe for a stretch)

I’ve been taking these meds for 4-5 months. I’ve caught a few colds, and I’ve now caught food poisoning 4 times over the last 7 weeks of travel, whereas I rarely caught it prior to introducing these prescription meds. All be it, two of the food poisonings came when I was taking the rapamycin daily. But while taking it weekly, twice in the last 3 weeks.

Some rookie speculation:

is my mtor being overly shut with the rapamycin AND how I supplement?
does high dose statin use cause immune problems and its being added to maybe with rapa and other elements?
are the statins and rapamycin or other things I take not playing nicely together? Switching to another statin may be of benefit?

Is it dangerous having a low immune system? I think I could take the intermittent sickness otherwise.

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#2

Are you eating a lot of unclean food that could have a high bacterial count? Either improperly stored food or street food? I get a lot of food poisoning when I eat street food regardless of any meds.

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#3

Have you checked your biomarkers?
That way it would be better to suggest something. Could be many things or could be just random.
From my experience (6mg rapamycin weekly for 7 months) I can say that it made my immune system more robust. I get fewer infections or I seem to catch a virus (muscle ache, headache, maybe fever in the evening) but I am clear in the morning.
There is no data in healthy humans that would support rapamycin as an immunosuppressant and there is not much evidence that it will make you more susceptible to even bacterial infections.
But one thing that is on top of my head, rapamycin has a effect on gut, maybe even gut microbiome. Acarbose does the same, ezetimibe presumably as well. Maybe your microbiome is adapting (I guess microbiome is a strong defense) or your intestinal lining is more permeable due to rapamycin affecting rapidly dividing mucosal cells in the intestines. I imagine this effect would be greater in your 8mg/day regimen.
I am not saying this is the case, just a thought.

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#4

yes. a lot of street food. Some in one country I’ve never been. I’ve been traveling like this for almost ten years though. I hadn’t had any food poisoning before taking these prescription meds for awhile, then a jump while on them.

I’m thinking maybe my supplements before the prescription meds kept me at an abnormal high level of immunity, and that maybe this is typical if your immune system is normal (with the prescription meds bringing the immune system down to normal).

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#5

I actually have SIBO (though I take supplements to keep it down), so I’ve had gut issues.

Thanks for the heads up on rapamycin, I thought there were indeed studies that in certain situations it could compromise the immune system. But if most studies disprove that maybe ill have to look elsewhere.

I also have an appointment with my general practitioner within a week and will ask for blood work regarding immune system

#6

There are studies that show that rapamycin indeed affects immune system and makes it weaker and that it also contributes to bacterial infections. I thought that it’s very well proven and accepted. At least, I have been fed by this info by my nephrologists since I started Rapa 14 years ago. The following is one of the links:

Some ppl even take doxy with Rapa to prevent bacterial infections.

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#7

if it contributes to bacterial infections, it may not be the drug of choice for a backpacker who frequently travels to third world countries and eats the street food, lol. may have to look into something to keep the bacterial infections at bay

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#8

I think it’s the bacterial load of the street food and your new environments combined with Rapamycin. That’s my guess, but I’m not a doctor.

However I have gotten food poisoning from street food while not being on Rapamycin. So it is a thing.

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#9

It what we all heard. But there is no evidence, most of the data comes from immunocompromised patients on multiple drug therapy; transplant or cancer patients.

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#10

The problem is that transplant patients need Rapamycin for them to become immunosuppressed. Rapamycin dose, individually calibrated for everybody, controls the degree of immunosupression needed. It’s not the other way around. Transplant patients were not immunosuppressed before the surgery. They become immunosuppressed as soon as they are started on immunosuppressive drugs, and rapamycin is one of them. The only reason I’m prescribed rapamycin is to suppress my immune system, the result of this suppression can be seen every month from blood markers. So there’s no doubt at all that rapamycin has direct affect on the immune system. The magic of rapamycin is in its dose - you go even a little overboard for some time and you get many problems. Bacterial infections is one of them.

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#11

You need to track your biomarkers as already mentioned. Further, you are taking too much melatonin for sure. 10 mg, why so much? Also ldl-c plays the role in activating immune system. so when you lower it, your immune system may decrease. This is hopefully offset by reduction in the cvd risk. And of course daily dosing with rapamycin will likewise suppress your immune system as it is given for that reason to transplant patients. Further even if you are taking it intermittently, when you take 8 mg, a high dose, you need to be very careful and avoid exposure to pathogens.

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#12

Thanks. I will get my bloodwork this week.

Also, living off the grid in poorer countries is kind of my lifestyle. I work online, and its cheaper in Central America/Philippines etc. I stay in cheaper lodging and eat the local fare. With this lifestyle, would you cut back on the meds if they continue to make you as sick? Is it a threat to my life to be around the pathogens?

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#13

The guy behind novos who I respect seems to think well of rapamycin when it comes to immune system

Why Rapamycin Actually Improves Immune Health and Function

interesting…

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#14

The “daily” dosing would definitely lower your immune system, thats exactly the dosing for organ transplant patients for lowering rejection risk. 8mg/week might also do it a little I suspect. and 8mg may be too high for you, especially if you’re lighter in weight or if, as you are, frequently in less pathogen-free environments (remember, all the mouse lifespan studies are using mice in pathogen-free environments, which is basically the opposite of backpacking and traveling in lesser developed countries and eating street food).

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#15

Oh, I’m not saying he’s wrong. Its just as they say “the dose makes the poison”. It all depends on your dosing (and body weight, individual variations, etc.). At lower doses, pulsed dosing, rapamycin has been shown to improve immune system function. At higher or daily dosing it does function as an immune suppressant.

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#16

Is this based on any human study or just mechanistic speculation on your part because you don’t like statins and are on a keto diet?

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#17

Thanks. Actually, I’m on the bigger side. 6’3 210. I saw a lot of folks taking 6-7 and thought with my weight id top it off. But I agree about the pathogen part. Do you think that its also possible that some of the large stack I’m taking could also assisting in clamping the mtor so I might need less as well?

#18

Ah, yes, some of your other supplements also are on the list of things that might impact your body’s absoption of rapamycin. Also foods… like citrus fruits, can greatly impact the bioavailability. See these posts:

Here: Rapamycin Interactions with Other Food, Drinks, Supplements and Drugs

Here: Improve Bioavailability of Rapamycin (2)

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#19

Wouldn’t taking rapamycin with olive oil only be best for absorption?

#20

Taking with olive oil (or any fatty meal) should increase absorption by about 30%. “best” is whatever your goal is. If your goal is 3X, then grapefruit is best.

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