My dog Buddy is taking 1m.g. in a piece of fish weekly. So far, it appears to be going well thankfully.
He has taken it 4 weeks now. I’m wondering what is everyone else’s protocol? I’m thinking once a week and then 5 weeks off (Peter Attia referenced this) but I’m interested in what protocols are out there. What is TRIAD doing, is there a break there after 8 weeks? Thanks in advance.
TRIAD uses weekly dosing 0,15mg/kg at nearest full mg without any breaks.
Thank you.
I’m just wondering are there any breaks after 6 or 8 weeks, for example.
No breaks in the TRIAD study, although interestingly I read recently that the treatment duration is 1 year for the dogs in that study, so even though the study is taking place over a period of several years of treatment and follow-up, each dog just gets the medication for 52 weeks.
Sorry if this has already been asked and answered but what is the earliest age people are putting their dogs on rapa? I have a chocolate lab that is turning 1 yr old and I wonder if I should wait a few years or get her started as soon as when she’s fully grown.
Actually this is a good question that I don’t think we’ve had before.
We have a thread on earlier vs. later age dosing of rapamycin in humans, here: The Case for Starting Rapamycin Earlier in Life (e.g. late 20s) vs middle age (e.g. 50s)
Applying this sort of logic to dogs suggests an earlier start age might be 2 or 3 years for a dog (depending on breed and size of dog). Basically, the dog equivalent of 25 or 30 years old in human terms for your breed / size of dog.
I started my dog at age 3 years - no side effects, doing great. Others here may have different opinions and given how much we don’t know about rapamycin still, all opinions are pretty valid. I typically dose my dog on the same schedule I dose myself - once a week, so its easy to remember.
I get the rapamycin for my dog from natural pet health and they are changing the rapamycin from capsules to entoric capsules given what they said is some new evidencd that it is better to get past the stomach acic…I am assuming the tablets that i bought from India have that sort of coating? I may just switch my dog to getting those…
Also it is odd that Dr. Toman at Natural Pet Health has a 3x/week regimen for my dog…my dog is doing amazing so i am not going to change it but curious if anyone else does it this frequently with dogs? fyi my dog is 60 pound lab taking 3g/ M W F with her food…immediately saw improvement in her joint pain, lots more zoomies and chasing her tail and just general energy and vitality improvements…she used to often favor her bad hip but now very, very rarely does so…
Yes - the generics produced by Zydus, Biocon and Dr. Reddy’s (and probably the other generics) have the coating to help the drug get through the stomach.
The 3X weekly schedule was the schedule for the first rapamycin dog trial by the Dog Aging Project.
Dr. Toman changed to enteric capsules after I brought to his attention the potential absorption issues with stomach acid and powdered capsules. I appreciate his efforts to make rapa available to pets, but I’m still skeptical of whether or not (or if so, how much) the enteric capsules will help absorption. It still could be just a fraction of the tablet dose, for all anyone knows at this point. Personally I’d just get tablets from a reliable overseas source and use the same weekly dose as the current Dog Aging Project study (0.15 mg/kg/week).
Nice work bringing it to his attention.
I have been using the capsules and having terrific results. On the other hand I am using 3 mg 3 X per week for a 55 pound dog. So that is 9 mg for a 25 kg dog so that is .36/kg if you total up for a week.
So more than double the current dog aging trial. On the other hand I have seen terrific results.
Perhaps that is because some of the dose is getting eaten up by stomach acid…so she is not actually getting all of that dose…hmmmm
Perhaps I am getting great results because she is on a high dose?
Perhaps when we get the new enoteric capsules and I keep her on same dose she is going to have some “too high of a dose” reaction.
Perhaps as you say with the new capsules it won’t work that well and she gets a bit higher dose and stays fine.
If I switch her to same dose with tablets perhaps she is going to get too much?
If I switch her to tablets and keep same dose perhaps she is going to get too much?
If I switch her to tablets at the lower dose that the dog aging project is using maybe she regresses from the tremendous benefits I have seen with her reduced limping and increased energy and affection
On the other hand the tablets from India are dramatically less expensive.
Wow…lots to think about…
I am not sure what to do
Thoughts anyone?
If I recall correctly, from an interview Matt Kaeberlein said that he opted for the dose used in the dog
to eek on the side of safety.
What I think is that he didn’t want people’s dog getting side effects and them leaving the study.
Timestamp 44:35
Now, I have no clue what the dose would have been if Matt Kaeberlein disregarded the issue of people leaving/side effects.
A new story covering why dogs are great models for aging:
This is a great thread. TIA
My vet has experience dosing rapamycin for osteosarcoma in dogs. His hesitation is, because it’s a “mycin” how it might impact a dog’s microbiome. Any thoughts?
Also, I’ve heard on Attia’s podcasts that he prefers branded over compounded rapamycin. Does anyone know if Dr. Kevin Toman is dosing Sirolimus?
On the issue of rapamycin affecting the microbiome, yes, that is probably the case. In most studies the poop from the animals is much smaller coming from the rapamycin-fed animals. But we don’t know if thats a negative or positive thing, all we know is that in all the mammal studies done to date the mammals live longer on rapamycin so the net effect seems to be positive (even if the microbiome changes are a negative): List of all the Mouse Studies Showing Rapamycin Lifespan Extension
The Dog Aging Study with rapamycin (TRIAD) is in process and we’ll know more in 2026 when the first results start to come out, until then we’re mostly basing our longevity knowledge on mouse data.
You can see detailed information on the Dog Aging project in this post: The Longevity Summit, News & Update - #8 by RapAdmin
Also - some interesting news on Golden Retriever aging…
“They’re always in love mode; they always do things to please you,” Lappin told me. In his early days as a vet, golden retrievers were also, he remembered, notably long-lived for large dogs: He’d see them thrive well into their teens, up to 17 years of age. They could be with families for nearly a generation at a time.
But somewhere along Lappin’s long career, he said something changed: Goldens were not living as long. He started seeing many of his golden retriever patients die of cancer before they hit 13. Many succumbed to the disease when they were even younger.
Years of anecdotal reports from other golden lovers as well as scattershot studies seemed to support the idea that something was wrong: Were the big, sweet dogs now perishing earlier than their forebears? Why?
Today, there is a consensus among veterinarians that golden retrievers have some of the highest rates of cancer of any dog breed.
Can you tell me if Dr. Toman is giving rapamycin from a compounding pharmacy or dosing branded Sirolimus?
On his website he describes his rapamycin as “capsules” which leads me to believe he’s using compounding pharmacy sirolimus capsules. See here: RAPAMYCIN CAPSULES... For Loved Dogs. Like Yours. – HelpingPetsLiveLonger.com
I think that generic sirolimus tablets are likely a better bet, for bioavailability.
Great point. Many thanks.
Great article, thanks. Basically they are saying that breeding for show has ruined another breed. True enough and fair enough, but I think it is possible to breed for longevity. They bring this up toward the end. Whatever the breeder thinks is important is what you get. If you need them to look a certain way, then you will end up losing everything else.
Farm animals bred for show are a different thing altogether than farm animals bred for productivity. With animals you have to decide what you want and go to a breeder that wants the same thing.
Also I still think the dog food could be responsible for the cancer.
My dog has been on rapamycin for 7 months and he has allways had problems with colitis and diarrhea. Once every few weeks. Was really troublesome but since taking rapamycin once weekly he had zero days with diarrhea and his poo has changed tremendously, it is lighter in color, more compact but at the same time seems really lubricated, hard to explain, but looks healthier. So indeed it has some effect on gut.
Id did have the some effect on my gut. I am taking acarbose too, so it is hard to distinguish between what is rapamycin and what is acarbose, but my gut works differently. I have daily bowel movements which were more of an exception than a rule previously.
I still use for myself and my dog “branded” rapamycin, pfizer rapamune. It is the only one available in Europe, but it supposedly have a far better bioavailability comparing to generic versions, that is why generics are not on European market. Compounded rapamycin capsules as much as I have researched can have almost zero bioavailability (some are better, depends on capsule, whether is enteric or not).
I get capsules that he says has a enoteric coating. I have kept the dose the same and seen no changes in behavior and no side effects.
One interesting change is that her stool size is larger that I think could be related to the new pills as I don’t think much else has changed. I would say it was noticeably smaller before and is more the size I would expect from a dog her size now.
Dr Toman now has us trying a few more new things…we added Acarbose, Metformin, Taurine and Fisetin. She has been on these a few months now. She is doing terrific and no side effects. A test of one I know but I will keep folks posted