Cardiovascular Health

Per ChatGPT:

This graph clarifies that within age groups in the US (especially the 70+ years group), the cardiovascular death rate continues to decline steadily, even after 2010. Therefore, the increase in the crude cardiovascular death rate since 2010 cannot be explained by worsening health within specific age groups.
Instead, the rising crude death rate is primarily due to demographic shifts—specifically, a larger proportion of the population entering older age categories (70+). This demographic change leads to an overall increase in cardiovascular deaths in the general population, even though each age group’s individual risk is decreasing.

QED

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You are trying to create a straw man and say that is said something I didn’t

I just said that heart attacks and strokes while in the medium and long run are due to a whole range of important things - in the short run can be pulled forward in time by severe stress (as the Great Recession and Covid are pandemic created).

Macro version of

Heart attacks increase by ~24% on the Monday after spring daylight savings time shift compared to other Mondays.

https://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.g3640

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Breathe in, breathe out, and chill out. We’re just discussing the cause of the increase of the CVD mortality crude rate and it seems that’s it’s not the economics but then… What can it be? :man_shrugging:

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I think if the entire population started taking Bempedoic Acid + Ezetimibe (BA+EZ) after the age of 30, or if their LDL was above 70 (which is probably the same cohort), we’d have a dramatic drop in cardiovascular disease the likes of which no one has ever seen before.

For some reason though, most medical systems seem to be OK with letting their populations develop CVD in their 70s, having stents and heart operations, or suffer from heart attacks and strokes. This is their ‘Normal’ outcome and why cardiovascular disease is the number 1 global killer of man.

To me, it seems that an easy daily pill of BA+EZ could be provided for everyone at a cheap cost (bulk production of 8 billion a day). Companies could make a larger profit due to volume and governments could save on costly medical treatments. Even if doctors just prescribed it to everyone over the age of 30, or for anyone with an LDL over 70, the effects would be massive. I guess it’s up to us to spread the word and take matters into our own hands. I only wish I had found out about this when I was 30. Except BA+EZ didn’t exist back then.

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I’m not the guy you asked, but the answer is like HFpEF. From hypertension and terrible metabolic health.

THANK YOU. Well said. This drives me crazy too. For example, in the UK, you can’t get a PCKS9i until you’ve had a heart attack. It boggles my mind. I have familial hypercholestrolemia and UK doctors just sorta shrug their shoulders and say “yeah but you’re young”. And I say “yeah but I’m building plaque right now”. They basically see it like “something had to kill you, so it might as well be this” ignoring the fact that if I have a heart attack, then the NHS would be paying for all sorts of expensive interventions to keep me alive. Total failure of preventative medicine.

We have to abandon this idea that LDL-C of anything higher than 70mg/dl is “normal”. As you said, the “normal” outcome of the status quo is a heart attack at 70-75, heart failure for your last few years and death before 80. That’s nowhere near good enough.

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Paywalled paper:

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(25)00075-8/abstract

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Edit: the graph in the preview doesn’t really show the conclusion. The conclusion is that combination therapy is better than statin monotherapy.

Glad I’ve smashed my own LDL-C to lower than 40 mg/dl. If only I can do the same for Lp(a) soon!

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It looks to me like most of the effect is driven by Lee et al, which looks like a cohort study.

The largest analysis to examine the best way to lower levels of “bad” cholesterol in patients with blocked arteries shows that they should immediately be given a combination of a statin and another drug called ezetimibe, rather than statins alone. This could prevent thousands of deaths a year from heart attacks, strokes and other cardiovascular diseases.

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If it was done early it would be millions of deaths every year.

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The age-standardized change is flat, doesn’t that suggest that there has been no increase?

Prof. Banach said, "Cardiovascular disease kills around 20 million people a year worldwide. Based on our previous analysis, we estimate that if combination therapy to reduce LDL-C was included in all treatment guidelines and implemented by doctors everywhere for patients with high cholesterol levels, it would prevent over 330,000 deaths a year among patients who have already suffered a heart attack, and almost 50,000 deaths alone in the U.S.

This is cause enough to advocate for Ezetemibe + statin.

Start everyone on EZ+statin early before they have developed plaque and save 20 million people a year worldwide. This should be a no-brainer, but for some reason it isn’t.

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No increase in CVD deaths in any age group, so why would it be HFpEF? It’s most likely just aging population (more people >70yo => higher share of CVD deaths vs other causes of deaths)

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The effect on all-cause mortality (OR, 0.81; 95% CI, 0.67 to 0.97; P=.02) is insane! Ezetimibe :muscle:

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You said it. Specifically, “Now, we’ve basically used up the benefits of the improved treatment and the deaths are catching up again.” Though I know you’re going to try and weasel your way out of this.

So a better question is, "what happened in who were turning 40 in 2010 (i.e. those born in 1970).

I don’t find this convincing as an explanation for the sharp reversal in the mortality rate in 2010.

I wouldn’t be looking at what happened in 2010 that suddenly caused a bunch of deaths.

When you see a large change in the mortality rate, you should absolutely look first at the surrounding social or economic or disease factors - unemployment, war, covid, etc.

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I don’t need to weasel because what I wrote is still true. If you interpret that as “we are getting worse at treating CVD” then that’s entirely a problem with reading comprehension.

I am reporting what the authors of that statistical analysis study (where the graph came from) and the president of the AHA said when he presented those data. He talked about better AMI therapy (reperfusion), better cholesterol management, smoking cessation as contributing to the decreases, and HFpEF, diabetes contributing to the increase. The sex difference narrowing is because in the 1990s and early 2000s massive efforts were put into educating doctors that women have hearts and get heart disease too.

IMO, it seems that people are trying to imagine that one dramatic thing has happened which can explain everything. If you zoom out the Y axis, the changes are much more modest and noisy. That sudden, skyrocketing spike of 2010 is… nothing more than a return to the 2005 numbers. In fact, women are still better off in 2020 than 2005, according to the graph.

Of course you are entitled to your own beliefs, and if you don’t “buy” this version maybe you can submit your alternative hypotheses and data for peer review somewhere.

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“Game-Changing Study on Heart Health and Cholesterol: New Insights Revealed”

No association between LDL or ApoB and plaque buildup?

“We are confident neither LDL or ApoB were associated with plaque progression.”

This is a very interesting video.

Nick Norwitz: Ph.D., Oxford; MD, Harvard

https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacadv.2025.101686

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Short Critique of the KETO-CTA Study

  1. Short Duration
  • Only 1-year follow-up may be too brief for meaningful plaque changes to emerge, given that atherosclerosis typically evolves over many years.
  1. No True Control Arm
  • Without a comparison group (e.g., with low LDL-C), it’s hard to know if plaque changes might have been greater or lesser in another population.
  1. Low Baseline Plaque
  • Most participants had minimal plaque at baseline, creating a “floor effect” that makes detecting ApoB-driven progression more difficult.
  1. Underpowered for Small Effects
  • A sample of 100 may miss modest but potentially important effects that only appear over longer time horizons or in larger cohorts.
  1. Bayesian Inference Limitations
  • A Bayes factor favoring the null is not absolute proof of “no association,” especially in a small, short-term study.
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The average ApoB increase over 1y was 3 mg/dL? And they expected to see significant CAC increase with that?!

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The study itself is “fine”, but this is a pretty dumb interpretation of it IMO. It’s nowhere near game-changing, and it certainly doesn’t undermine the Apo-B/plaque hypothesis in any way.

It is absolutely a fact that LDL-C/Apo-B contribute towards plaque. However, that doesn’t guarantee that plaque will form or grow linearly every time they are present. Many factors go into whether plaque is formed or regressed or stabilised, including the amount of arterial stress (blood pressure, nitric oxide, smoking etc), how efficient you are at clearing accumulated lipids, the immune response to the plaque, the amount of smooth muscle cell proliferation etc etc. We know the ketogenic diet is “weird” and tends to produce blood tests results far outside of the normal range, and it’s possible that it affects some of those processes in a way which offsets the higher ApoB.

As for the study itself, as the post above says, it’s a small number of people, who are obviously health conscious enough to stick to a keto diet, so it’s a very atypical population. And the followup is only one year, which isn’t long enough to really detect much plaque growth. We can also see in the table that the average participant already has a positive CAC score, thus they already have advanced atherosclerosis, and it’s no surprise that people with higher baselines tend to get worse. If you understand the basic mechanisms of ASCVD, there is absolutely nothing unusual about that, because we know that arterial injury begets more accumulation, which causes more injury, which causes more accumulation…

The discussion section does a nice, honest job of summarising the study. We should all stay away from Youtube videos and social media:

While both LDL-C and ApoB are independent risk factors for atherosclerosis, the absolute risk associated with elevated LDL-C and ApoB is context-dependent, including the etiology of the elevations in these biomarkers as well as interactions with other risk markers

This is well-known in the field for decades. There are kids with familiar hypercholesterolemia who get myocardial infarctions in their teens. And there are people who managed to smoke, drink and have sky-high ApoB their entire lives and never have an MI. A risk factor is just that, and nothing is guaranteed.

Thus, these data are consistent with the observation that high LDL-C and ApoB among a metabolically healthy population have different cardiovascular risk implications than high LDL-C among those with metabolic dysfunction, who constitute a majority proportion of the population

Exactly as I said above.

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