This is timely, I just came back from Japan and tried to observe the population eating habits as much as I could. I spent long times perousing the supermarkets and local eateries.
The Japanese definitely don’t seem to care about pushing protein intake. They tend to get a lot amount of grain protein - rice and wheat based noodles. (They also eat buckwheat - soba). They eat a lot forms of soybean - from edamame, tofu, natto, yuba. Of course they eat fish and other seafood. They eat vegetables and some fruit (not as much as I would myself). They eat some eggs, some dairy and some meat. Overall they don’t eat big meals. They also don’t seem to care about balancing grain protein with legume protein. I was always obsessed with eating complete protein…but there is no real evidence that this practice is that essential.
Anyway, Stanfield take on this aligns with my approach that I posted here before. The protein targets set by Attia at 1.6 mg/kg seem awfully high and unnecessary (per studies presented). Animal protein rich in methionine and (iso)leucine is a huge M-tor activator as well.
My approach now is to push plant protein with less emphasis on balancing legume/grain sources for complete protein. Continue supplement with collagen and add that to my daily count. Continue with fish, greek yogurt and some eggs. Lower target to 1.2-1.3 grams/kg. I have don’t have room for animal protein quite frankly but will eat it occasionally.
I have listened to multiple Christopher Gardner talks (in addition to Simon Hill and Valter Longo). You probably know as much or more than I do on this, but the message is that all plants have all the amino acids, but their proportions are not always ideal.
The thinking is if you consume enough calories/protein, it all works out and you don’t have to worry about balancing anything. If you don’t consume enough calories, that is when you need to add protein shakes or focus on things like soy etc.
While the discussion is really quite nuanced, this stands out to me and is really “all I need to know.”
…“subjects in the high protein group had a 74% increase in their relative risk of all-cause mortality, and were more than 4-times as likely to die of cancer when compared to those in the low protein group.”
The leaning towards plant protein with perhaps some fish also sounds about right for most people who are under 65.
Did you happen to notice what’s the color of cooked buckwheat in Japan? Is it medium brown or very pale tan? Interested in their cooking method. In Russia, it’s customary to condition buckwheat grains first in a pan without any added oil or water. When grains become medium brown, cooking continues with added water. This makes it non sticky (each grain is separate). However, if we cook it raw without previous conditioning it’ll be sticky (like sticky rice) and very pale tan color.
These were buckwheat noodles, and they are definitely gray in color. They sold them ready to eat in trays in Japanese supermarkets along with dipping sauce and green onions. You eat them cold, especially in the hot Summer. Quite a bit for around $3 dollars !!! Supernutritious with complete protein and plenty of fiber.
Yes buckwheat kasha has to be toasted for proper cooking otherwise it becomes mush. Even if it’s toasted, you have to time it perfectly. I love buckwheat but it’s a pain in the ass to prepare it correctly, quinoa is so much easier and faster than rice.
I think Peter Attia’s evangelism of consuming massive amounts of protein in misguided.
Here is a very interesting convo, citing evidence that we may need even less than the 0.8g/kg protein common wisdom. Plus it’s possible to limit protein to 9% of calories and obtain all sorts of weight loss without losing muscle mass thanks to FGF-21 (unless you’re obese).
There’s a lot about diet and metabolism that we still don’t know:
Sugar, Protein & Aging: Two Metabolism PhDs on Surprising New Science (Nick Norwitz)
I can recommend tempeh made from buckwheat. Combined with millet and quinoa, its even better. I create that on my own and it tastes great.
Traditional fermentation micromes are my ‘pets’ . I love to ferment foods, so there are a lot of bubbeling experiments and regular micro housemates in my kitchen.
And my take is that if your kidneys function declined with age (happens to all of us) you most likely don’t need excessive protein in your diet. I don’t usually add additional protein to my plant based food besides may be a spoon of pumpkin protein once a week. It’s enough for me.
My cats have CKD and the newer thinking is they shouldn’t be on high protein, but they also don’t need to be on very low protein either.
If they excluded people in the study with later stage kidney disease, I wonder if the effect of high protein on people with early kidney disease over 10 years was simply not long enough to kill them and that is why it showed a protective effect, because we do know higher protein in older adults can help protect against sarcopenia etc. Just a thought?
. I love to ferment foods, so there are a lot of bubbeling experiments and regular micro housemates in my kitchen.