You are only as young as your oldest part...I now have all my stats pre starting Rapamycin

My chronological age is 53.4
TruAge Diagnostic say my Intrinsic Age is 61.8 (ouch)
But my Levine PhenoAge is only 45.6
This sort of goes hand in hand with a VO2Max test saying I’m the equivalent of the average 24 year old (or one step away from an elite athlete of my own age), whilst I have arthritis in one of my finger joints! (and thats with hs-CRP of just 0.08)

So what age am I ? Who do you believe?
The only conclusion one can draw from that is you are only as young as your oldest part.

Other stats - A CAC score of zero and from the uploaded spreadsheet (if it works) you can see elevated LDL and ApoB a bit on the high side (other lipid levels are good). Family history with the heart is extremely poor (and from an ECG I am in the first stage of that going wrong) hence wanting to do the Rapa for protective purposes before anything bad happens. My BP had gone too high but non-medical interventions have brought it back down into the 120/80 range or thereabouts.
phenoage_gen-1.xls (41.5 KB)

I’ve started my Rapa journey - all the above will be repeated after week 35 (fortnightly doses having escalated over that time from 2mg to 15mg (but no GFJ or fatty additions) using the Zydus Siromus brand supplied by Varun Medicals).
Having heard that Grape Seed Extract is good for alleviating arthritic pain I’m also now taking some of that as well, my state doctor wants me to take 20mg Atorvastatin to get the LDL down, (will try to get OxplApoB or OXLDL measured at some point as posted elsewhere) but apart from reducing my protein intake a bit all other dietary aspects and exercise regime will stay the same so with hopefully not much in the way of variables, we’ll see what Rapa is really capable of.

Once the 35 week results are in I’ll update this thread unless anything else notable crops up in the meantime.

All comments/suggestions are welcome.

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Look at / review information on boswellia. And look into DMSO, on another thread I post a PDF copy of a medical book titled;

“Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO) in Trauma and Disease” by Stanley W. Jacob

You have some very interesting markers.

A CAC of zero is excellent, when was this done? Re VO2, are you high endurance exerciser?

EGFR - 67 That seems low for someone 53 yrs old and healthy and taking Rapamcyin.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-rate-of-decline-in-eGFR-with-increasing-age-for-males-females-and-the-population_fig1_221895495

HDL - 93 mg/dl, that’s super high. Always been this high?

Your TG/HDL of 0.56, and remnant cholesterol of 0.2 mmol/L is EXCELLENT (maybe a reason you have a CAC of zero).

You say you have a hsCRP of 0.08, but yet your IL-6 (rarely see this tested) is 38.2 pg/ml, that’s very high.

This reference shows level should be < 5 pg/mL. Rapamycin?

The mTOR kinase inhibitor rapamycin enhances the expression and release of pro-inflammatory cytokine interleukin 6 modulating the activation of human microglial cells

“All together these data suggest that the inhibition of mTORC1 in human microglia by rapamycin results in complex immunomodulatory effects, including a significant increase in the expression and release of the pro-inflammatory IL-6”

But I thought Rapamycin was an immunosuppressant, lowering IL-6?

“Rapamycin inhibits protein synthesis, delays aging, reduces obesity in animal models, and inhibits activities or expression of pro-inflammatory cytokines such as IL-2, IL-6

Because of your LDL? But your other cardio risk markers are EXCELLENT and you have a CAC of zero!

What is your diet?

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Hi MAC
Just to reiterate, all of those blood tests, CAC score, VO2 Max etc were done in the last couple of months prior to starting the Rapa. So no Rapamycin effects on any of these.
Like you I don’t understand why hsCRP so low and IL-6 so high. My CRP has consistently been low so no reason to suggest this is incorrect but I wonder about the IL-6 result.

My aerobic exercise only consists of 3 x 1hour per week of zone 2 and one 15 minute HIIT session. All other exercise is weight training. The weights I’ve been doing all my adult life, the HIIT was started about 7 years ago and the zone 2 was started only 2 years ago. Prior to this I would be very quickly out of breadth when running for anything - It just shows what a difference exercise can make no matter what age one starts doing it.

Again the EGFR is measured pre Rapa - my private MD thinks my kidney function is the priority where we have work to do.

HDL started edging up over the last 7 years but really jumped up when I ditched the seed oils and only used either olive oil or lard. Again, that switched also induced the move up in LDL a similar amount to the HDL. (State doctors are overworked with no time to think so its just follow the play-book with them - LDL up so take a statin. At least my private MD is looking into trying to get my OXplAPOb or OXLDL measured before taking a view).
In general, because of my family heart history, I’ve always tried to eat healthily, though it was only in the last couple of years I’ve learned what that really means!!
Diet now attempts to avoid all sugar types and refined grains (not always possible when eating out), and I’d characterise it as being very high in fibre, fermentable foods and fish compared to the average. Lots of nuts, seeds and herbs & spices would be the other standouts. The other way I’d characterise it is trying to eat a small amount of as many different food types as possible each day (no known study on this being beneficial, just a personal hunch), whilst utilising an 8 hour feeding window.
(Am now gradually cutting back on meat consumption).

Hi Joseph - I’ll make a note of the Boswellia and DMSO and look at that if the grape seed extract has no effect.

Thanks for your interest.

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Many positive lifestyle interventions, and forward thinking “baselining” pre rapamycin. Good luck in your journey, keep us posted on how rapamycin impacts.

Your VO2 max, you also actually tested this metric as well?

Would be curious on your IL-6 discordance with such a low CRP.

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Yep VO2 Max tested at same time as doing the blood tests just a few weeks ago.

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Forgot to mention monitoring HRV which has been in mid 60’s pre first dose, though it came to my mind this morning as when I looked last night, for the first time it hit 70.
Also have done 6 different exercise tests pre my first dose, so we’ll see how they progress later on.

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Egrf could be low if OP is big and muscular and/or supplements creatine

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Finally have my post Rapa regime data (delayed like everyone by Tru-Diagnostic).

The protocol post the initial testing was to gradually ramp up Sirolimus (used Zydus brand) from 2mg per fortnight to the point where I had an adverse reaction.
Supplements being taken regularly at this point were Vit D&K (diagnosed as deficient), Magnesium, Garlic Capsules and Ginger tablets (as suggested by my MD).
My philosophy has always been to try to get everything from diet by way of eating as many different food types as possible each day (within a 8-9 hour feeding window). When I know I’ve been deficient in certain areas I’d supplement as appropriate (e.g. we had a period when sardines were in short supply so I was supplementing fish oils and astaxanthin at the time). Other occasional supplements would be a multi B vitamin, zinc if the kids come home from school with colds (frequently and never caught a single one!) and copper if felt overdoing the zinc.
Part way through this period, I started regular consumption of Creatine and Tongkat Ali.

2 doses at 2mg, 2 doses at 4mg, 5 doses at 6mg, the latter two of which were taken with EVOO (and EVOO was continued from this point (no GFJ used in this at all)).
Nothing was noticed at all good or bad at this dose.
Then went to 8mg at which point I did notice increased focus/concentration and stamina. That said, it would take more than 12 hours to take effect, so at this point I switched from morning dosing to just before going to sleep dosing so as not to affect my sleep. 8mg was done for 4 doses before going up to 10mg.
Safety blood tests were being taken periodically, and after the 4th dosing on 10mg these came back showing neutrophils were below range.

At this point we decided to stop and repeat all the prior tests.

Should also point out that I was put on Statins during this period, had negative reactions (muscle cramps) to three different types, so quickly switched to Ezetimibe and have been on this ever since. Also, towards the end of the period, started taking 50mg Acarbose with carb laden meals.
Also, for whatever reason and very annoyingly, one of the labs couldn’t do some of the tests so they ended up having to be repeated after a week of enjoying myself skiing, overeating probably rubbish, not taking any supplements apart from the Vit D/K and taking a massive hit on the hip which is probably why the hsCRP went over the threshold to register a number for the first time since I’ve looked at it, and the APOB is probably higher than it might have been 10 days earlier. (The APOB test doesn’t correspond to all the other lipid numbers as now 10 days apart in terms of blood draw).

Attached is the spreadsheet with some historical data going back to 2005 for reference, the pre-rapa data is in column H and the most recent in column M.

Although Neutrophils quickly recovered, the reason I remain off Rapa is that IL-6 and TNF-alpha became very elevated and we are yet to get to the bottom of why this has happened.

Otherwise, no disregulation with glucose, Ezetimibe was clearly enough to deal with the prior elevated lipids and stopped elevation caused by Rapa as reported by some others.

Over the period my fitness regime didn’t change, and I have definitely become stronger at the gym. All metrics improved. The pain in my finger joint became unnoticeable and morning stiffness in both hands disappeared. DEXA and Vo2Max improved on all metrics.

Since being off Rapa, strength remains, but joint pain in the finger is back along with the morning stiffness.
Through the whole period I’ve been carrying an arm injury which hasn’t responded to treatment either on or off Rapa and also still under investigation like the IL-6 etc.

Tru-Age appears to have improved in one respect but not in another (whilst DunedinPace virtually unchanged below 0.7)

All in all I think I conclude with the original title of this thread.

Age calculations.xlsx (16.9 KB)

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RPS wrote: I am 53.4 years…TruAge Diagnostic say my Intrinsic Age is 61.8 (ouch)

I had TruAge Diagnostic and I am 65 years… they say I am 67… despite 2 years 8 month of rapamycin. GlycanAge and TruMe methylation saying I am 50… Levine score 50 too. So
3 separate tests… blood, spit and blood work… say I am 15 years younger.

Going to visit with them on Monday. Something is not right with their scores.

Not sure if things got messed up during the tornado that hit them… when my sample was there being processed.

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They have sent mine to be done again

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I get the feeling they’re gonna be doing mine again also. Will see after my discussion.

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I think you have just saved me some money. There is no proof that any of these age predictors actually work. For instance, there is a battle going on to determine which of the markers are useful. Telomere length is an example where there are both papers claiming it is useful and papers claiming it isn’t in predicting biological age. Most people like Michael Lusgarten prefer the ones that give them the most favorable results.

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Yup!!
This just seems too far off based on 5 other epigenetic tests, my DEXA and Coronary Calcium Scan.

Not sure what their game is because it listed things to do to change numbers… already doing these things plus. Lol.

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Yes, the aging test results are really all over the place. It’d be nice if they could figure out how really old I am. The age range for me from the various tests - between 28 yo and 59 yo - is really too wide for my liking. But if I average all of the tests together, I get my real age. Funny how that works… Rapa reduced my spit test age by 7 years.

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I am not a great fan of epigenetic tests. However, as quite a few people are trying out this one I shall do as well.

If aging is a mixture of mitochondrial efficiency and senescence there is not really a single biological age for an organism anyway. If the cells in say the pancreas as in a really bad state that could take the rest of the body down.

Exactly John, as the title says, you are only as young as your oldest part.

You may want to consider getting your apob way down.

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It’s on the way down and still work in progress.
I suspect it would have been lower if the lab had used the blood I’d given the week before generating all the other great lipid data, rather than straight after going on holiday vacation where I enjoyed a lot of probably very unhealthy food!
Anyway, aiming for a lot lower by the time of my next test.

Have started a new protocol that really tries to emphasise pulsing as many things as possible.

(Edit: please note the pharmaceuticals indicated at the bottom are taken every week not just in week 4. This was a last minute addition at the bottom as an afterthought for completeness).

I appreciate the negative effects that @desertshores and @Agetron have seen with high dose rapamycin (and subsequent positive ones of the 6mg per week variety) and having originally started out on 10-12mg fortnightly, and subsequently moved to 6mg weekly, (not noticing any particular effects) I have now moved to this 8+3+3mg over 3 days (hopefully not too long to induce mTor2 inhibition?) once every 4 weeks as an n=1 experiment to see if I notice any calorie restriction mimetic effects without having to do any 3 day fasts where I felt in the past I was losing too much muscle mass (my fat % as per DEXA hovers around 10% which probably explains the muscle mass loss when fasting).
If I feel no effects and it’s detrimental on other markers I will report back and go back to 6mg weekly.

Starting position is an Hba1c of 36mmol/mol or 5.4% which is completely unchanged from my pre Rapamycin days, and an ApoB of 0.85 which has been trending down since first measured pre Rapa at 1.62
All other biomarkers are in a good place.

Thanks to everyone here for all the pointers, especially @SilentWatcher @Joseph_Lavelle @John_Hemming @desertshores @Agetron @DeStrider @adssx and @teumessian-fox

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