tfl.phd, I have seen your list more than once as I’ve read through this topic. It is an interesting list and apparently you’ve done quite a bit of research and may be in the medical field. I have questions and if you have time to answer that would be great. Do you have time to tell a bit about your experiences with some of these supplements from top to bottom in terms of the way you take them and your results? Or, maybe you can just talk about those you consider most important? I’ve used some of them, but not all. However, the data looks interesting enough for me to consider those not yet taken.
Sure, the reasoning for my stack comes from trial and error and what seems to work for me given my high stress enviroment with a crazy work load that requires a large brain power demand. It’s just not possible to manage without taking anything. So I decided let’s do this the smart way.
A great resource for an explanation of some of the items on my list is The Most Comprehensive Nootropics List - Nootropics Expert , and “Boost Your Biology”.
You need to make sure you buy the highest possible quality, brand name not generic, preferably directly Russian sourced for most of them (as it is known the best nootropics were discovered by the Soviets and patented). I will explain later. This is the best website to purchase direct: https://cosmicnootropic.com . A majority of people in the nootropics community purchase from here.
For me, I have a few eastern european friends who purchase it for me and bring it when they come visit. Although, when I run out I do use the website.
Anyways, some things I didn’t break down so I will do that for you now.
Please keep in mind that these are nootropics and not brain drugs (ie: amphetamines, aderall, vyvanse etc…). Brain drugs come with the heavy list of side effects as you know, nootropics don’t. Further nootropics are neuroprotectant in some shape or form, vs the typical stimulants (such as cocaine, amphetamines etc… )
- Phenylpiracetam (Nanotropil) - 100mg (up to twice daily)
**This is the racetam that works for me. The weakest of them all is piracetam imo, so try them out and see which one works the best for you. There are several racetams that you can read about on nootropicsexpert.com. It shouldn’t be taken everyday but rather for tasks that involve high concentration and alertness. Such as before an exam, studying, work, meeting, a date (for verbal fluency and sharpness) etc…
Think of it as the cocaine of nootropics without the associated side effects. Although, withdrawal is possible if taken daily without washout periods. Rather than me explaining here is a thorough summary of it: https://nootropicsexpert.com/phenylpiracetam/ **
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Vinpocetine - 10mg -**Not really one that you’re going to feel but it increases cerebral blood flow. The one I take is from life extension. Read: Vinpocetine - Nootropics Expert **
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Mexidol (Emoxypine) - 125mg For me besides for the anxiolytic effect, this one is a great add on for general health. It’s a powerful antioxidant, clears brain fog, reduces chronic pain, and heals old nerve injuries, also improves circulation. The anxiolytic effect is subtle for me. Sometimes that’s enough. othertimes it needs to be paired with something else like Picamillin or Selank.
Watch this vid:https://youtu.be/qRMXqe6yYrU?si=F8CNVWduLzD90bEq -
Picamillon 20mg and/or Selank - **Also a favorite for me. Great anxiolytic for social settings. I don’t drink alcohol anymore, and somehow this works better than alcohol in clearing social anxiety in social settings. Many anectodally share the same experience. Note the reason I say to buy the brand name because the GABA and niacin combo (specifically the niacin bonded onto the GABA molecule) in Picamillon is patented. That is where the benefit comes from. Usually GABA cannot cross the bbb in which case binding niacin directly onto the molecular structure of GABA allows the GABA to penetrate the bbb. If you’re curious, it’s not going to work if you separately take GABA and separately take niacin. The soviets figured that out and that the niacin actually had to be physically attached to the GABA. Read: https://nootropicsexpert.com/picamilon/ **
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Ocassionally Semax - (small warning: anything that increases BDNF anectodally increases hair loss (although reversable when stopped and is rare). I noticed that I little bit so I don’t take it much. But if you are older then the benefit outweighs the hair loss
Highly recommend Semax 0.1 % for those with a higher risk of stroke or age related cognitive decline. For example, in Eastern europe Semax is carried on every ambulence and is admistered in the ER immediately to Stroke patients. A must have in your medicine cabinet in case you ever begin to notice stroke symptoms for yourself or a family member. The lower dose (I think .01%) should be taken prophylactically though for the cognitive benefits
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Several eggs a day (must be pasture raised and corn and soy free) or Ocassional Alpha GPC - 300mg.
A lot of these nootropics deplete choline reserves hence the need to supplement with additional choline. But there is a TMAO related stroke risk of choline supplementation with alpha gpc or cdp choline. Dose and time dependent. Large doses (600-1200mg daily) over years. But keep in mind if you have a predisposed condition that you may or may not be aware of, your risk obviously goes up. Such as hypertension, clotting disorders etc…So it’s not for everyone, and definitely not something I would do everyday. Eat a couple of eggs instead for the choline. Even though they have high choline levels similar to the supplements they seem not to cause the same degree of risk with TMAO as the supplements. Dietary Choline Supplements, but Not Eggs, Raise Fasting TMAO Levels in Participants with Normal Renal Function: A Randomized Clinical Trial - PubMed -
L-theanine - 200mg if I ever drink caffeine. Helps with the jitters but I don’t tend to drink much coffee.
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Lithium Orotate - 1mg . Mostly due to the water study where they found that countries with higher trace lithium in their drinking water supply had lower levels of suicide, depression and violent crime than countries with no lithium in their water. To the point that I asked myself, is trace lithium purposefully not being added into water supply in high suicide and violent countries? Truly some interesting stuff.
Read:
Association between naturally occurring lithium in drinking water and suicide rates: systematic review and meta-analysis of ecological studies - PubMed
Lithium in drinking water linked with lower suicide rates | ScienceDaily
Scientists Say Lithium Should Be Added to Drinking Water to Prevent Suicides
I take the Lithium orotate from life extension 1000mcg.
- Nicotine: Have tried Zyn’s but stopped after a week. Nicotine decreases thiamine (B1) big time hence why the energy drain after it. Only way I would take Zyn’s is with large doses of thiamine. But circulation is also effected which is why it is not my thing.
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you are on a lot of stimulative nootropics, how is your sleep?
There’s a dad joke in here somewhere, but it’s probably father down and now I’m lost.
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After I read my own post I thought, “You could not have been less clear!”
2022 was a good year for weight loss. In 2023, I gained it all back. In 2024 I’m going to try and lose it all again.
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@tfl.phd Yeah definitely agree on trying a few of the racetams. For me piracetam is definitely the best. Phenylpiracetam was more noticeable the first few times I took it, but after that it seemed like it stopped working. Piracetam’s effects on the other hand seemed to stack.
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Someone in another thread here posted a chart that showed carnosine and beta-alanine enter different tissues and thus you can target what tissues you’d prefer by using one or the other.
My sleep is usually great. Usually I take the racetams in the morning and throughout the day. Sometimes when I pull all nighters or go out then yeah I take it at night too. When I take it late, like other stimulants there is the obvious sleep disruption there but thats the point to stay awake. Caffeine too late in the day would do that to you anyways, so no different.
Besides for the racetams, which have a short half life anyways (few hours tops) most of the other ones (#3 and #4 ) are primarily anxiolytics and GABA agonists so actually makes my sleep better.
My nightly sleep stack is high dose melatonin (180mg), Mag threonate (neuro mag) , Lithium orotate, sometimes LDN (4.5mg).
Seems to do the job.
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I take Piracetam from time to time to mix it up but I need to take 800mg-1200mg every hour for 3 hours to feel something because it gets metabolized out so quickly. That’s my main concern with it. But 100% agree Phenylpiracetam might be too strong for some. That’s why I refer to it as the cocaine of nootropics. Some prefer Aniracetam though.
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That would make 2023 a total gain.
I am going to play a Devil’s advocate and make a case against supplementation.
What I gathered from reading the posts here that a majority of forum member focus on potential benefit of a given supplement. I am more concerned of potential harm that a given supplement can cause. You certainly don’t want to take something for years just to find out later that it caused more harm that good. This certainly seems to be the case with Niacin which unfortunately was used by medical doctors in high doses to lower LDL !!!
Every single supplement has risks, every single one. Even our beloved fish oil can cause unacceptable levels of hypocoagulability, I have seen many patients with easy bruising that at risk for major bleeds with trauma as a result of fish oil supplementation.
Here are other examples potential harm associated with supplements:
Vitamin D, Hypercalciuria and Kidney Stones
Emmanuel Letavernier 1 2 3, Michel Daudon 4 5 6
Affiliations expand
- PMID: 29562593
- PMCID: PMC5872784
- DOI: 10.3390/nu10030366
Free PMC article
Abstract
The estimated lifetime risk of nephrolithiasis is growing nowadays, and the formation of kidney stones is frequently promoted by hypercalciuria. Vitamin D, and especially its active metabolite calcitriol, increase digestive calcium absorption-as urinary calcium excretion is directly correlated with digestive calcium absorption, vitamin D metabolites could theoretically increase calciuria and promote urinary stone formation. Nevertheless, there was, until recently, low evidence that 25-hydroxyvitamin D serum levels would be correlated with kidney stone formation, even if high calcitriol concentrations are frequently observed in hypercalciuric stone formers. Low 25-hydroxyvitamin D serum levels have been associated with a broad spectrum of diseases, leading to a huge increase in vitamin D prescription in the general population. In parallel, an increased frequency of kidney stone episodes has been observed in prospective studies evaluating vitamin D alone or in association with calcium supplements, and epidemiological studies have identified an association between high 25-hydroxyvitamin D serum levels and kidney stone formation in some groups of patients. Moreover, urinary calcium excretion has been shown to increase in response to vitamin D supplements, at least in some groups of kidney stone formers. It seems likely that predisposed individuals may develop hypercalciuria and kidney stones in response to vitamin D supplements.
Safety Aspects of the Use of Quercetin as a Dietary Supplement
Susanne Andres 1, Sophie Pevny 1, Rainer Ziegenhagen 2, Nadiya Bakhiya 2, Bernd Schäfer 2, Karen Ildico Hirsch-Ernst 2, Alfonso Lampen 2
Affiliations expand
- PMID: 29127724
- DOI: 10.1002/mnfr.201700447
Abstract
The flavonoid quercetin is frequently found in low amounts as a secondary plant metabolite in fruits and vegetables. Isolated quercetin is also marketed as a dietary supplement, mostly as the free quercetin aglycone, and frequently in daily doses of up to 1000 mg d-1 exceeding usual dietary intake levels. The present review is dedicated to safety aspects of isolated quercetin used as single compound in dietary supplements. Among the numerous published human intervention studies, adverse effects following supplemental quercetin intake have been rarely reported and any such effects were mild in nature. Published adequate scientific data for safety assessment in regard to the long-term use (>12 weeks) of high supplemental quercetin doses (≥1000 mg) are currently not available. Based on animal studies involving oral quercetin application some possible critical safety aspects could be identified such as the potential of quercetin to enhance nephrotoxic effects in the predamaged kidney or to promote tumor development especially in estrogen-dependent cancer. Furthermore, animal and human studies with single time or short-term supplemental quercetin application revealed interactions between quercetin and certain drugs leading to altered drug bioavailability. Based on these results, some potential risk groups are discussed in the present review.
Keywords: adverse effects; drug interaction; nephrotoxicity; quercetin; tumor promotion.
4. Negative Effects of Resveratrol
Resveratrol is widely known for its renowned beneficial biological effects, namely involving its chemopreventive and antioxidant properties. However, some studies have documented that it may behave as a pro-oxidizing agent [112]; thus, paradoxically, it may also have implication in pathology of several diseases.
Resveratrol antioxidant potential has been attributed to its ROS-scavenging capacity [112,113] and to an up regulation capacity on cells antioxidant defense [114]. Studies have reported that resveratrol could act as a signaling molecule within tissues and cells in modulating genes and proteins expression through redox-sensitive intracellular pathways activation. Thus, cell tolerance against oxidative environment could be attributed to gene expression changes and to a raise in antioxidant defense systems action and synthesis, which eventually results in cell survival and adaptation [115,116,117]. Moreover, depending on enzymatic reactions conditions, resveratrol can be (auto-)oxidized to generate semiquinones and relatively stable 4′-phenoxyl radical, finally leading to ROS production [118,119]. Such polyphenols’ oxidative reactions are influenced by pH and presence of hydroxyl anions or organic bases [120,121].
A study carried out by Martins et al. revealed that resveratrol can modulate different pathways at a time, which can result in distinct and even opposite biological effects, depending on its concentration or treatment time defined. The authors documented that, although a dose-dependent resveratrol pro-oxidative effect leads to cells oxidative stress over lesser time exposure, at same dose but with an increase in exposure time, less expressive cytotoxicity was found. This suggest that surviving cells seemed to be more resistant to resveratrol-induced damages, being its effects attenuated over treatment time [114]. Additionally, low resveratrol doses (0.1–1.0 μg/mL) has been documented to enhance cell proliferation, whereas higher doses (10.0–100.0 μg/mL) induces apoptosis (Figure 2) and decreases mitotic activity on human tumors and endothelial cells [122]. Recently, dual resveratrol pattern effects on HT-29 colon cancer cells death and proliferation were observed, where at low concentrations (1 and 10 μmol/L), resveratrol increased cells number, while at higher doses (50 or 100 μmol/L) resveratrol reduced cells number and increased apoptotic or necrotic cells percentage [123].
4. Adverse Effects of Antioxidants
The most popular “antioxidants” forms include vitamins, such as vitamin A (retinol, retinoic acid), vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid, ascorbic acid, ascorbate), vitamin E (α-tocopherol), β-carotene, minerals, like Se, and naturally-occurring polyphenols, each one has a different effect on body cells. Vitamins and β-carotene have conjugated double bonds and key functional groups responsible for their antioxidant role and quality as pigments in several foods, like fruits and vegetables. Below, we briefly summarize the adverse effects of these popular antioxidants, often consumed as supplements at much higher doses than those found in foodstuffs. While their adverse effects are known in the medical community, they are not well-known among the population, who believe that natural products cannot be toxic. Czernichow investigated the effect of antioxidant supplementation for 7.5 years on metabolic syndrome (MetS) incidence and even the epidemiologic association between baseline serum antioxidant concentrations and MetS prospective risk [16]. No beneficial effects of antioxidant supplementation were observed in a generally well-nourished population. Baseline serum antioxidant concentrations of β-carotene and vitamin C, however, were negatively associated with MetS risk. Baseline serum zinc concentrations were positively associated with the risk of developing MetS [16]. Park [17] found that there was no association between dietary intakes of vitamins A, C, and E and colon cancer risk in this pooled analysis of thirteen prospective cohort studies. However, total vitamins A, C, and E intakes were each one inversely associated with colon cancer risk. Multivitamin use, particularly in combination with a single vitamin A, C and/or E supplements use, was inversely associated with colon cancer risk. A low dietary intake of antioxidant vitamins and minerals raises the incidence of cardiovascular diseases and cancer [17]. After 7.5 years, low-dose antioxidant supplementation lowered total cancer incidence and all-cause mortality in men but not in women. In fact, supplementation may be effective in men only because of their low basal status of certain antioxidants, especially of β-carotene [18].
Researchers reported the existence of increased teratogenicity risk or birth defects among babies born from women who took more than 10,000 IU vitamin A per day in the form of supplements [19]. Indeed, excessive dietary vitamin A intake has been associated with birth defects in humans in several studies reported in past years [20,21,22]. A controlled clinical trial found that people who took 25,000 IU of vitamin A per day for a median of 3.8 years had 11% increase in triglycerides, 3% increase in total cholesterol and 1% decrease in high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, unlike those who did not take vitamin A [23]. In a recent case report, a 4-year-old boy presented several bone pains due to vitamin A toxicity (600,000 IU every day for more than 3 months) [2]. In fact, it has been reported that excessive vitamin A intake can accelerate bone loss and risk of hip fracture, possibly due to vitamin A-induced osteoclasts stimulation, besides it inhibits new bone formation, increasing osteoporosis risk [24].
On the other hand, vitamin C can be metabolized to oxalate and might increase kidney oxalate excretion. Several studies suggest that vitamin C supplements may increase urinary oxalate concentrations, doubling the risk of calcium oxalate kidney stones [25,26,27]. A study defined that high vitamin C intake from supplements is associated with a rise in cardiovascular disease mortality in postmenopausal women with diabetes but this has never been confirmed [28]. Theoretically, vitamin C may cause too much iron absorption but this is likely to be significant only in persons who have high iron stores or in patients with iron overload, such as hereditary hemochromatosis, where an increasing iron toxicity risk may exist [29]. Pavlotou [30] evaluated free oxygen radicals (FORT) and free oxygen radicals defense (FORD) levels in patients with newly diagnosed type 2 DM patients. The authors found that FORT levels were increased in diabetic patients compared to controls; however, FORD levels were lower in diabetic patients compared to controls.
A study reported that dietary vitamin E supplementation significantly increases prostate cancer risk among healthy men [31]. A meta-analysis renders more evidence of vitamin E adverse effects on stroke subtypes. Indeed, the study defined a 22% increased hemorrhagic stroke risk and a 10% decreased ischemic stroke risk with vitamin E supplementation, although the absolute effects are minor [32]. Still, a study underlined that 22–30 mg/day of vitamin E in human pregnancy may be associated with birth weight decrease [33].
Scientists have reported that β-carotene supplementation (and not the intake of vegetables rich in β-carotene) has actually increased the risk of death from lung cancer or heart disease in smokers, rather than reducing cancer incidence [34,35,36,37]. In fact, we believe that other antioxidant side effects may not be reported and other ones will be discovered in the future. Nonetheless, the studies performed so far have severely impaired the reputation of antioxidants in general. However, in an ideal world, we could go back to this study, through examining tissues pre- and post-treatment, and determine whether interventions had a signaling effect in the tumors. Based on previous studies of ebselen, an organoselenium compound with broad antioxidant properties [38], it is likely that ROS reduction in tumors, for instance in Burkitts lymphoma, results in MAP kinase signaling activation and an increased tumor growth rate [15]. In addition, more rapidly growing tumors may be more susceptible to subsequent chemotherapy and radiation. Thus, the current state of affairs suggests that the most common antioxidants are, at best, ineffective and potentially harmful.
Personally I am with Dr. Attia on that instead wasting time and money on supplements, we should rather focus exercise in forms strength, cardio and stability as best healthspan boosting behavior. Second attention should be to carefully cultivated diet which can provide many of the supplements in lower dose, more complete isoforms, more bioavailable. Micronutrients in contained in real foods are probably much safer given that we co-evolved with them over the past 100,000 years and did quite well as a species. Finally sleep, stress reduction, social interactions and cognitive stimulation (playing a musical instrument, learning a language) are the final piece of the puzzle.
Personally I did experiment with a number of supplements and saw no notable difference by any measure, except for Creatinine and Transparent Labs Stim Free Pre-Workout helping get through cardio interval and weightlifting sessions… very subjective though.
To enhance the benefit to risk ratio I am reducing my supplementation to intermittent and/or as needed use.
For example -
Vit D with URI’s and when my sun exposure is low
Curcumin, Magnesium and Fish Oil for musculoskeletal injuries
Creatinine and pre-work out formula containing TMG, Taurine among other things prior to exercise routines…
and so on.
OK, daily hyaluronic acid supposedly for joints, wound healing (mountain biking and trail running), my GERD and of course keep the skin from sagging - all of those seemed to improved so why not.
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Additionally I take ox bile and tauroursodeoxycholic acid. I prefer the ketogenic diet. My gallbladder should be fine
You sound like my doctor who wouldn’t even think of suggesting a supplement. Even if it’s iron or fish oil it would only be in prescription form.
My shotgun approach has stood me in good stead. My enemies are dead and I’m still ticking. 
I am becoming Bryan Johnson.
This is the of supplements and drugs that I am currently taking. The list often changes according to my experience or new data.
I certainly don’t recommend this list to anyone, especially to young people who may not need any supplements or meds.
Unfortunately, I have almost as many supplements on the shelf waiting their turn.
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- alphaGPC
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- bacopa monnieri
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- Boswellia serrata
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- cinnamon
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- citrus bergamot
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- CoQ10
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- DHEA
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- fadogia agrestis/Tongkat Ai
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- French pine bark
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- glycine
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- l-carnosine
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- lithium orotate
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- magnesium glycinate
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- melatonin
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- multivitamin
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- pantethine
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- phosphatidylserine
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- PPQ
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- quercetin
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- taurine
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- TMG
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- turmeric
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- vinpocetine
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- vitamin C
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- vitamin D3
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- vitamin K complex
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- willow bark extract
MEDS
- willow bark extract
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- acarbose
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- bempedoic acid
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- ezetimibe
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- metformin
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- metoprolol
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- rapamycin
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- tadalafil
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- telmisartan
OTHER
36 methylene blue
- telmisartan
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Doctors got burned using supplements like Vitamin A, E, Niacin, off label drugs etc. as far as back in the 90s. The boards got stricter and evidence based medicine became the norm. Without good evidence you are just experimenting on patients. That is unprofessional.
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How do you know you wouldn’t be even stronger without the supplements ? 
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Ray Kurzweil’s Supplement Regimen
Once he said, “I take about 250 pills of nutritionals a day”. Now he is down to 100!
"For boosting antioxidant levels and for general health, I take a comprehensive vitamin-and-mineral combination, alpha lipoic acid, Ubiquinol coenzyme Q10, grapeseed extract, resveratrol, bilberry extract, lycopene, silymarine (milk thistle), conjugated linoleic acid, lecithin, evening primerose oil (omega-6 essential fatty acids), n-acetyl-cystein, ginger, garlic, l-carnitine, pyrodoxal-5-phosphate, and echinacea. I also take Chinese herbs prescribed by Dr. Glenn Rothfeld.
For reducing insulin resistance and overcoming my type 2 diabetes, I take chromium, metformine (a powerful anti-aging medication that decreases insulin resistence and which we recommend everyone over 50 consider taking) and gymnema sylvestra.
To improve LDL and HDL cholesterol levels, I take policosanol, gugulipid, plant sterols, niacin, oat bran, grapefruit powder, psyllium, lecithine and lipitor. To improve blood vessel health I take arginine, TMG and choline. To decrease blood viscosity I take daily baby aspirin and lumbrokinase. I reduce inflammination by taking EPA/DHA and curcumin. I have dramatically reduced my homocystein level by taking folic acid, B6 and TMG.
I have a B12 shot once a week and take a daily B12 sublingual. Several of my intravenous therapies improve my body’s detoxification: weekly EDTA and monthly DMPS. I also take n-acetyl-carnitine orally. I take weekly intravenous vitamins and alpha lipoic acid to boost antioxidants. I do a weekly glutathione IV to boost liver health.
Perhaps the most important intravenous therapy I do is a weekly phosphatidylcholine IV, wich rejuvenates all of the body’s tissues by restoring youthful cell membranes. I also take PtC orally each day and supplement my hormone levels with DHEA and testosterone. I take I-3-C, chrysin, nettle, ginger and herbs to reduce the conversation of testosterone into estrogen. I take a saw palmetto complex for prostate health. For stress management I take l-theonine, beta-sitosterol, phosphatidylserine and green tea in addition to drinking 8 to 10 cups of green tea itself.
At bedtime I take GABA and sublingual melatonin. For brain health I take acetyl-l-carnitine, vinprocetine, phosphatidylserine, ginkgo biloba, glycerylphosphatidylcholine (alpha-GPC), nextrutine and quercertin. For eye health I take lutein and bilberry extract. For skin health I use an antioxidant skin cream on my face, neck and hands every day. For digestive health I take betaine HCl, pepsin, gentian root, peppermint, acidophilus bifodobacter, fructooligosaccharides, fish proteins, l-glutamine and n-acetyl-d-glucosamine. To inhibit the creation of advanced glycolysated end products I take n-acetyl-carnitine, carnosine, alpha lipoic acid and quercertin."
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I’m not sure that is a fair characterization of his approach
I think he thinks there is an and and not an or
The and is generally to use less supplements than eg a Bryan Johnson, but he has consistently shared key supplements to use in key situations and he himself has often been public about the 10 or so main supplements he takes (and hand full of medicines he takes).
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It appears that from your list Ray is a kitchen sink kind of guy. Unfortunately there’s a lot of supplements he takes that are of dubious value. However some of them are pure gold.
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De Strider…Thank you for responding! I see you on here quite frequently!
Can you tell me whether or not you take glycine, and if you take it what are the amounts and number of times per day?
Right now I take glycine once per day. 3g total. ITP said glycine was a good supplement and I want to make sure that I am getting a sufficient amount.
NOTE: I am not on rapa or acarbose at this time.
Thank you ahead of time!
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@TBI-CHI I do take Glycine. I have 11 g of collagen peptides (high in Glycine) plus 4 g of Glycine powder and 1 g of TMG in my morning coffee. I take another 4 g of Glycine in my evening tea with 4 g of L-citrulline.
In total that’s about 9 g of pure Glycine powder and 11 g of Collagen daily.
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