Thanks. I checked all your list and 100% contains titanium dioxide. So only 2 choices left :
order raw pure powder
-order the classic generic
Just 2 questions to make my final choices please :
1/ I see you advice often to make third part lab test. But when ordering from India, normally all Rapacan tablets are same… isnt ? I dont see how it could be different.
2/ The “enteric coated” tablet is the only thing you state. But possible to make similar effect using such capsules : DRcaps from Lonza. However, is there others interest such as “crystal structure” or ?
We don’t have much data really on quality of product coming out of India. We have 2 tests (two data points), on Biocon Rapacan, and Zydus Siromus versions of rapamycin / sirolimus. You can see the lab test results here: Rapamycin / Sirolimus from India, Lab Test Report on Quality / Purity
Quality / contaminants of pharmaceuticals is based on inputs, storage issues, and general quality control systems and motivations within the company (greater focus on production volume vs. quality, etc.) - so there are many reasons why quality of drugs may vary over time.
Regarding your second point - sure, I assume you could address the bioavailability issue via good capsules. Of course - you’d need to test via blood tests, to validate that its working. More details here: How to get a Rapamycin (sirolimus) Blood Level Test
I would note EU is going on a precautionary principle.
It’s important to understand that a potential hazard that cannot be ruled out based on lab conditions that do not resemble human consumption is not the same thing as an “actual risk”.
If you look at the actual studies, it’s not the same as what you’d get from the food matrix as titanium dioxide would bind to different compounds, further reducing the tiny bioavailability from ingestion in the first place. (Inhalation of nanoparticles is a different story)
“Cannot rule out genotoxicity” doesn’t mean as much as people think. DNA damage is reversible and toxicologists do not put much weight on these assays - it’s more of a screening tool at best. I literally looked at all the studies that the EFSA identified where titanium dioxide showed genotoxicity (at doses well beyond human exposure levels) - every single one of these studies was flawed.
I personally am not particularly concerned about pharmaceuticals containing small amounts of titanium dioxide until there is better evidence showing otherwise.
Thanks all for your replies ! very nice to have such discussion here.
I checked some of the data deeper for titanium dioxide. Im not convinced about it being that bad nor OK… actually some studies clearly state the mecanism of action by oral route. So if we could avoid, we should. Now the question is here because I want to test first the 20mg protocol. So 20x the tiny amount ot titanium dioxide in one shot :S but seems no choice.
Seems like we also need to improve its solubility, probably to better perform at the gut level. And here we dont know what we do with raw material without proper studies.
So… yes, no choice : we need the tablets full of titanium dioxide.
Then I came back to the quoted study and also found out that someone on longecity only see clear result using Rapamune. Not the generic. So the dissolution process is clearly to consider, not only the dosage once we choose to supplement with it.
So why such high numbers of people complains in this forum ?.. and who are the several users of BG here ? Im really cautious of the owner self promoting using different identity in forums…
No, that forum is clearly spam. See the different BG threads on that forum. They have all the same spam comments posted over and over. Look at the thread on thinksteroids instead, or on reddit. BG is so far a legit source.
He hasn’t promoted himself here… Just other users here have recommended the site and have had success. Its the only place i know that sells rapamune without prescription.
BTW, I didn’t completely rule out any sort of harm because that’s going to be very difficult to prove in the first place and it’s pretty unlikely whereas there are a million more issues that are potentially more likely harmful - like all the possible combinations of microplastics and nanoplastics one could take in through many different routes - pretty certain some forms are harmful - at the very least the inhaled route being most likely. I’m not saying we should be cavalier but at some point, one should consider having some probability cutoff about what you should worry about using a targeted selective approach or it’ll be physically impossible to figure out how to avoid potential toxins out there to a reasonably safe level. Partly why I quickly pointed out EFSA uses a precautionary principle. That’s ideal but not practical. Too many false positives will end up unnecessarily spending a lot more resources in time and money - there are better ways to spend resources which will likely yield net longer lifespan. It’s not as bad as CA Prop 65 - but it’s a similar analogy - one would end up not being able to buy anything if one follows meaningless warnings.
To be clear, I’m merely pointing out that there isn’t much reason to be particularly concerned, as there needs to be more evidence on the things that actually matter which unsurprisingly hasn’t been done probably because - it’s unlikely in the first place.
I’m not going to go in-depth and write a 5-page essay to explain why every single one of the methods in every single one of the cited studies is deeply flawed since it’s a lot more time than it’s worth. I’ll merely point out - one study literally didn’t follow the standard protocol for assays (which isn’t even that useful of an assay) and you should read the methods - if you’re familiar with some of the more advanced statistics used and why they’re likely false positives, you’ll quickly see what I mean by deep flaws.
Most of these can be quickly picked apart by a PhD in stats or even masters level stats equivalent knowledge, so it won’t be particularly difficult to find someone who will explain it in more detail orally if you’re already part of the supplement industry at large. If any single one of the studies actually proved stem cells had genotoxicity, I’d be far more concerned because that would be likely irreversible genotoxicity rather than known to be reversible - typical of mature cells. Not to mention, if you run the extrapolated numbers on human exposure - basically these are impossible levels.
Are you really going to put more trust in an authority who clearly indicates in their methods “we didn’t actually fully read and understand the full paper” from the get-go? It literally doesn’t make sense to me but if you can explain why I’m completely mistaken - I’m quite open to it
Do we know the difference between classic indian rapacan people use here and rapamune ? I mean the patented crystal technology is in it ? or they just use classic enteric coated ?
I just ordered from LC laboratories 2 x 50mg to make my own acid resistant capsules
The generics produced by Zydus, Biocon, etc. have not been well evaluated (to the best of my knowledge) by anyone here, to do a good comparison from a technological standpoint. It would take some digging into possible patents by the companies, etc., and the information may not be available.
The information we have gotten, from people doing blood tests after taking the generics, is that the generics all seem to work pretty well in terms of bioavailability (you can search here in our forums for people reporting on their blood test results).
But, nobody has, I believe, done a head to head comparison (via blood work) of the branded Pfizer Rapamune vs. the generics. It would be interesting, but whatever the case they are not too far off from each other.
Depends on what you read, I guess. This is a new study published this month. Using titanium dioxide nanoparticles, it found no adverse effects in a subchronic rodent study in dosages up to 1000 mg/kg.
Why so ? believe me we can divide the dose very well in my lab : we will mix it along acacia fiber and place it into capsule DRcaps just for me ^^
Btw : why is R L PHARMA, NIBA HEALTHCARE, 120$ including shipping for Rapacan… And Dropshim MD like 250$ ?! why such a difference. Both are listed as trusted and sell the same brand with same origin…