Remarkably, MK-7 from natto was absorbed
extremely well with peak values even higher
than those for detergent-solubilized K1. After
having reached their peak levels a rapid disappearance of both K1 and MK-7 was observed,
but MK-7 showed complex pharmacokinetics, with slow disappearance during the second part of the curve, while it remained
detectable for at least 72 h. The half-life times
for both K1 and MK-7 between 6 and 8 h postprandially were about 1.5 h, whereas during
the later phases of MK-7 disappearance the
half-life time was about 50 h. To exclude
mutual interference of absorption (e.g. by
competition for the same binding protein),
the above experiment was repeated in a design in which spinach and natto were given in
two separate meals with a 1-week interval.
The serum curves are shown in figure 2 and
are comparable to those obtained after the
combined meal.
I read this as MK7 initially dropping quite quickly, but after that having a longer serum half life. That is more as I would expect as it gets absorbed into cells. My own experience is that the effects (of mk7)
last about a day. (or moreso a night as they disrupt sleep with higher energy levels).
I find this interesting as it shows that the authors of the papers that cited the original research did not report it accurately enough and saying it has a 3 day half life is basically misleading.
Based on those charts, I am led to believe there is a high absorption at the beginning by cells and then slower absorption over the next 24 hours so by 48 hours, the level has dropped significantly.
So, supplementing every other day should be optimal? Thatâs what I am getting from these charts. Do you concur @John_Hemming ?
It depends on what your objectives are. MK-7 has as I see it two benefits.
a) It improves calcium handling
b) It adds an extra electron transport for the mitochondria increasing ATP production.
For me it creates a disbenefit as the extra energy from b) can cause difficulty sleeping (although my sleep has improved a lot now compared to where it was a few years ago).
Initially I took it once a week because I wanted to have the effect of improved calcium handling. Currently I am taking it on days when I am not fasting (I am fasting today so I have not taken mk-7).
I am intending to cycle days so some are high ATP days and some are not.
If I wished to have the positives a) and b) at the max every day I would take it every day. It would be interesting to see a chart where the volunteers ate natto every day. It is important to remember that this measures serum levels. Clearly what is happening is initially a big load into the serum and then a big transfer into the cells and then more of a steady state situation where it gradually gets metabolised or excreted in some way. (probably metabolised).
I have just started my experimentation with combined ATP boosting. This seems to push up my heart rate and also as a byproduct the blood pressure. Hence I intend cycling it back down quite quickly so I can monitor what happens.
In the end the objective is Ribosomal efficiency so that the Ribosome Quality Control pathway is not being used too much. What happens for some proteins is that the cell creates lots of copies of the mRNA, but they are not converted into protein for some reason. I think it is an energy shortage (particularly ATP). This is where mitochondrial efficiency helps. There are, however, two routes to increasing mitochondrial efficiency. One is improved mitochondria (which is where Rapamycin helps) and the other is propping up the ATP production systems (for which things like menaquinone-7 help).
I think you have to start out with what your objectives are. I think that ATP boosting is something to do on a cyclical basis. Similarly calcium processing does not have to be tip top every day. At the moment I donât have enough information to judge what to do about ATP boosting.
I donât have the papers to hand, but one pathway I have looked at is the de novo NAD pathway which creates NAD from Tryptophan (or via B6). On that pathway I think there is a blockage caused by difficulties with the RIbosome creating one of the enzymes. I went through this a few months ago after Mike Lustgarten did his video on the Kynurenine pathway. Hence there is a lot of mRNA hanging around, but the cell does not create the enzyme. It may be related to having a rarer amino acid in quantity or it may be just a length issue. I donât know. However, it could be that by boosting ATP levels this blockage is cleared. That wonât require continual ATP boosting, however. I think there is a danger of continual boosting in that then the cells donât bother if the mitochondria are too inefficienct. What we want are efficient mitochondria and possibly a boost of ATP every so often.
It may be, for example, that boosting should only be once a week or once a month.
I had been dosing daily at night, but it didnât affect my energy levels. I can always fall asleep at night. I think I will stop daily dosing and do a 3X a week dosing schedule. Thank you for your insightful observations.
Has anyone noticed MK-7 causing high blood pressure? It seems to me that it raises my blood pressure and resting heart rate. I think I need to follow up a little longer. The MK-7 dose has been only 45 mcg.
What it does is that it provides an extra electron transport for the mitochondria. Hence it produces more ATP for the same input and makes mitochondria more efficient. That means that muscles are more powerful including the heart. (so it beats faster and harder and hence BP will go up until other systems bring it back down again)
I find it also has the potential to cause me sleep problems for one night following the dose. I have improved my sleep to the extent that I can handle menquinone-7 now and still sleep adequately. It is one of a number of things you can use to boost mitochondrial activity without stimulating AMPK. On the other hand when you donât take it the mitochondria drop back to a lower energy level.
I have a protocol for boosting mitochondria including the temporary measures and longer term AMPK activity.
I may add PQQ, but I had a bad reaction when I took it so I am holding this back for now.
What I like about the more permanent AMPK stimulation is that it appears to increase energy levels in a persistent manner by making the mitochondria more efficient (similar in activity to and synergistic with rapamycin).
In essence the mitochondria respond better to the ATP/ADP gradient so that the Ribosome can produce proteins more reliably. It may also help with the export of citrate via SLC25A1, but I am not sure about that.
This is as i see it one of the two key pathways that cause the aging phenotype.
Warning: If anyone is interested in trying the temporary mitochondrial boost protocol I advise people not to do all of it at once initially, but first test out each individual component then add them gradually.
Some have quite short half lives (MB - 4 hours for example), but others last longer.
I have not done anything to assess dose effects of COQ-10 (I take a single pill which claims to be 100mg) or MK7 where I take a squirt from a dropper which is probably around 500micrograms. I did some dose tests with Methylene Blue, but concluded to take 10ml of a solution I made myself which makes this 40 micrograms. I did not notice anything specific to methylene blue other than the fact that it has a pH dependent effect on urine colour.
I normally have quite high pH urine (8-9.5) because of the large amount of citrate I consume, but when I binge drink it can also move to slightly acidic (say around 6).
Interesting. I found that taking methylene blue before cardio workouts is a bad idea. MB increases blood pressure by lowering blood vessel volume (works against NO) which makes exercise feel harder. It might also make mitochondria more efficient but oxygen delivery is impeded I guess.
Thatâs an interesting thought. I have so many different supplements and interventions that I use that I try to simplify things so I have 4 batches of HDAC inhibitors which I call HDAC1, 2 3 and 4. I have 3 sets of AMPK enhancers, similarly AMPK1,2,3 and I have an ATP boost system. Although I tested out each individual supplement by taking it and nothing else on a day (I had negative results with PQQ) otherwise I test by doing either just my basic Citrate and Supplements which includes HDAC1 or ATP, AMPK1 2 and 3 and HDAC2, 3 and 4.
I have only recently started going to the gym with my older son (who is now 31). I donât really have enough of a track record to say if there are any major effects. I do notice higher heart rates with the ATP boost etc.
I have researched vitamin K quite a bit in the past but donât remember ever coming across anything inidicating that it plays a role in the electron transport chain. Do you have any studies backing that claim up?
Question. It has been long asserted that vit k2 boosts testosterone. There is some evidence of this in mice with high doses. I recently heard that vit k2 in high doses reduces testosterone in humans. I cannot find anything to support that. Have you seen anything believable about vit k and testosterone?
