I agree, I noticed the Fisetin as well - I am sure they added it bcs it is a very popular supplement that may or may not stimulate cell senescence… the research is contradictory. But it doesn’t belong in this formula.
2 Likes
Try 1/4 of a mg, sublingual to see if you can avoid the stomach issue. If that works with minimal distress stay with that dose and shorten the days to 6, then 5, then 4 between doses.
There are injectable versions I’ve read about as well. Try that first!
2 Likes
Kira, I am cutting and pasting part of a chapter I wrote on aging re AMPK activators. There are a lot of them.
Berberine is one of the compounds known to activate AMPK. Berberine extract is available as an extract supplement as well as whole plant supplements.
Jiaogulan, an herb from Chinese medicine has a reputation as the longevity herb. It provides potent antioxidant protection, and also activates AMPK, like Berberine does, and inhibits proliferative activities. The literature is replete with evidence this one is anti-cancer. Jiaogulan is apparently an easy to grow vine, the leaves of which are used for tea. Easily obtained as a supplement.
Ginseng-panax type, Ginsenosides. A number of ginsenosides have been reported to activate AMPK, resulting in decreased liver triglyceride and cholesterol levels, and the inhibition of fat production and liver glucose production. As a supplement, this should be taken in the morning as it is known to induce insomnia. I find that to be true, and in the morning it boosts all day energy for me.
There are many more AMPK activators. This mechanism probably accounts for much of the touted health benefits of many things in general acceptance as good for us. Here is a partial list. I do not think taking/getting all of them is feasible, cost effective or even productive, but we have many choices.
• Ashwagandha—Withania somnifera, Indian Ginseng—More to come on this
• Resveratrol from red grapes—take with some fat for absorption
• Quercetin from many plants including fruits, vegetables, and grains.
• EGCG from green tea –Epigallocatechin gallate, is a polyphenol
• Curcumin from turmeric
• Anthocyanins found in blueberries, bilberries, grape seed extract and pine bark extract
• Nicotine (only in fat cells) and intervenes in the anti-inflammatory effect of nicotine. Why smokers stay thin.
• Bitter Melon (Cucurbitane)
• Carnitine
• Glucosamine
• Fish Oil/Omega 3’s
• Fisetin
• Zinc
• Cinnamon
• Astragalus root–used for centuries in traditional Chinese medicine
• Reishi–mushrooms
• Apple Cider Vinegar /Acetic acid, Pomegranate vinegar
• Allontoin-found in comfrey, aloe vera, sugar beets and yams. The natural product most like Metformin (see below)
Research indicates that more benefit is reached when several of these are used together.
7 Likes
Thank you for your suggestion, Greg. I am definitely considering this route - as soon as I gather the proverbial balls to take it again… Thoughts on breaking the all-important protective coating?
This is great, thank you so much Ellie! After my fiasco, I researched the botanical route as well - after all, Rapa is extracted from a natural source, just like Metformin. I was glad to learn that I am already taking 2 of the items that are possibly weak analogues of the aforementioned drugs - I drink strong Green Tea every AM, and take Ashwaghanda with it. Just started to add Berberine to this mixer dn waiting for Reisho power, too… I think this is already more than normal ppl would ever take, lol
Contemplating Ginseng - that is a whole different rabbit hole. Not easy to find a quality 6 year Korean Ginseng. As far as Gynostemma – which resemles Ginseng in its beneficial saponin content - it is much easier to acquire and absolutely delicious as a tea. Wonderful list!
I recommend you read up here… I have not looked into the issue closely, each of the manufacturers (Pfizer rapamune, the generic vendors like Biocon and Zydus, etc.) use a different approach and technology, so you’d likely need to read up, and ideally do blood testing after dosing to see if its getting through the gut acids.
2 Likes
One idea here for you - obviously be very careful and work with a physician given your reaction in the past. You could use Everolimus tablets instead of sirolimus. These are more available in smaller dosing tablets (.25mg and .5mg), and Everolimus is generally considered approximately 2/3rds less potent, so you can control the granularity of the dosing very finely.
See listing of the Everolimus options on Oddway, for example: https://www.oddwayinternational.com/page/1/?s=everolimus&post_type=product&product_cat=0
But to be honest, given your two very negative reactions, you may just want to focus on other longevity drugs like acarbose or canagliflozin, etc.
2 Likes
No issue, it’s not a time release coating.
I do know that many increase absorption by taking it with 6-8oz of grapefruit juice. This may allow you to further lower the actual dose.
If you do, try taking it in an even smaller dose. Maintain that and very slowly escalate if you tolerate it. GF Juice is thought to triple the absorbtio.
2 Likes
Thank you for your reply, very helpful!
I had no idea Everolimus has such variable doses, And that it is less potent - no wonder it is never mentioned in longevity research for Rapa!
I am writing it down as a viable scenario.
A couple of questions if you don;t mind:
- Do you know anyone taking it for whatever reason?
- Do you know which generic brands to look for or avoid? there is a lot of info on Sirulimus, but not on Everolimus.
Great to know that there is no harm breaking the coating- thank you:-)
Got it - thank you, will read up:-)
Here are people using it: Everolimus instead of Sirolimus / Rapamycin? Anyone else trying?
I don’t know any good brands of everolimus - but it would seem given the lab test results we’ve seen with Zydus and Biocon that those are reasonable brands to consider. See the lab tests here: Rapamycin / Sirolimus from India, Lab Test Report on Quality / Purity
1 Like
Awesome, thank you - I am actually inspired!
As I said in my original post - my main reason was to address whatever autoimmune process is making my fingers swell, and it is probably and antibiotic and/or anti-fungal action that eliminated the swelling. So if I could tolerate even the smallest dose - .25mg, once in lets say 3-4 weeks to be safe, and never increase to the 6 mg necessary for life extension benefits - I am still happy!~
3 Likes
Address the autoimmunity first.
Biotics research ADP, Bio Hpf, Dysbiocide, FC Cidal. Sigg Immuno powder
Nutramedix samento, burbur pinella, Houtunya. Binder
Glycine with Nac
That’s the starting salvo.
2 Likes
Thank you Nietzsche! I will look into all of these supplements, some of them ring a bell in connection with Lyme disease treatment …
RE: Sign Immune Powder - is it “Immuno-gG® SBI Powder” by Biotics Research? Immuno-gG® SBI Powder | Biotics Research
Sorry tried berberine for a while and i put it in the snake oil category with few other things. lol
2 Likes
Kira, be a brave girl and don’t give up on Rapa. Yes, lower the dose. Had few bad symptoms myself when i started but my body adjusted and don’t have any now. BTW, I have the sausage finger syndrome also, not as bad as you though. Stay away from milk, if you have to have it find A2 milk and organic or sheep’s/goats milk. Also stay thousands of miles away from legumes, including soy and all beans. Do try a carnivore diet (mainly steak, some veggies in small amounts should be ok), and also invite me for dinner when you make the steak hahaa. Update us in your rapa journey.
2 Likes
Thanks for the info… might switch my little dog!
1 Like
Really? Is that bcs you didnt feel any different, or did you find that the research doesn’t support it for… anything? lol
Thank you for the encouragement!
So I got 0.25 Everolymus tablets - looking for the minimum effective dose to affect my fingers…
And in case I get the same scary reaction - got Zyrtec and Prednisone, both of which may halt the reaction should it occur.
Now all that is left is to gather some dwindling bravery, as well as a chunk of time when I can take at least 7 days off (the minimum I need to recover in the worst case scenario) and repeat the experiment again. Will def keep you posted!
As for diets - thnx, yr recommendation makes total sense… And trust me - I tried it all, multiple variations… so whatever the underlying condition I have that manifests itself as there atrocious finger balloons, it is not affected by diet… unfortunately, bcs that would be much easier than my current endeavor 