I tried HCG monotherapy and felt awful on it. It more than 4x my estrogen while only doubling testosterone. Felt very emotional and anxious.
Not sure estrogen levels on TRT but I’ve not used any aromatase inhibitors and I feel fine.
I’ve not tried enclomiphene personally but I read as much as I could from user experiences on TRT vs enclomiphene, and I saw a consistent theme of people who used enclomiphene first and then went to TRT that they felt different at the similar serum testosterone levels.
I have no explanation as to why.
I have a friend who uses enclomiphene and they’ve mentioned how when using it for extended periods of time the effect seems to not be as potent. At one point they mentioned their libido completely vanished on it. Appears to change the emotional state in a way that I think TRT doesn’t do.
So Enclomiphene from India, in my experience is generally fake. There may be exceptions - but we should see an increase in LH and FSH. I’ve had many cases with Indian enclomiphene where this plainly doesn’t happen. I actually don’t recall any cases where it does what enclomiphene does. Compounded in the U.S. 100% of the time works. Now as to whether one’s testes produce testosterone in response is variable and age dependent to some degree.
I’m trending toward using gonadorelin for patients with mid range LH with low testosterone and seeing this work very well, and much more cost effectively.
For example, Belmar Pharmacy in Florida has a 500 mcg oral troche that only needs to be taken twice weekly of gonadorelin at about $2 each. Needs an Rx … but still is a great option. Injectable is similarly very cost effective - and I can get that from Mira-Vista Pharmacy in Texas.
DesertShores, look for message 133 in this thread where I gave more and better details. However, I have not noticed any subjective difference in how I feel with higher TT and FT when using enclomiphene citrate than when my TT was low and my FT was below normal before enclomiphene. However, it’s still early for me and I plan to take the FT Direct test next time, not the FT calculated version, which I think may not be accurate, since it is the FT that is the real key to any improvements. And, to complicate things even more I’ve read that there may be something called bioavailability of FT which definitely confuses me. So, all I can do is experiment to see if I can find a solution other than testosterone injections.
I did not notice a decrease in energy with low-normal testosterone, but it did effect libido and muscle mass retention on a weight loss phase. Enclomiphene restored both. Afaict, enclomiphene works as advertised.
Taken under medical supervision, clomid lowered my Total T from 244 to 185. Enclomiphene, on the other hand, went too far in the other direction, raising my T to 1200 but also increasing everything else–mood, energy, libido, and aggression. I did not like the aggressiveness. I’m now on testosterone gel, which keeps everything at a moderate but effective level.
It’s a dose issue generally as I have some men on as little as 3 mg daily of Enclomiphene. The DHT needs periodic tracking, as does estradiol. I’ve seen some individuals jump in with 25 mg daily of Enclomiphene … that might work out well, or might have a lot of side effects. I typically start with 1/4th of an enlcomiphene 25 mg so 6.25 mg daily and then recheck everything in 4 weeks. It is reasonable to check an FSH and LH before treatment. If the Testosterone is quite low and the LH is already plenty high, it’s unlikely that clomid or enclomiphene will work, and is likely to cause problems.
Either one will work and can be monitored. Enclomiphene is cheaper and more consistent in being able to access. I’ve found Enclomiphene and HCG from India is likely not real - I don’t know the % of cases where this is the case - so make sure you have a good verified source or get through an appropriate pharmacy.
Gonadorelin is an agent I’m using more that increases LH and FSH and one can easily monitor if it is working. This is often used for men whom I’m supporting whatever testicular function they have, but not completely independent of testosterone use, or trying to wean off, or if not on testosterone and are low, using it to increase their testosterone. Much like enclomiphene, but looks a bit cleaner and targeted in its method of increasing LH and FSH.
Fantastic info. Gonadorelin and enclomiphene both increase testicle size too I would imagine? I’ll admit I haven’t gone too far down those wormholes. I know much more about HCG since it’s been around longer and have personal experience with it.
There is more to know, but basically Gonadorelin and Enclomiphene both boost LH (testosterone production in the testes) and FSH (sperm production in the testes) from the pituitary gland.
HCG is an LH analogue, so the testes see it as LH and thus produce more testosterone.
This is naturally dependent on the testes being capable with adequate LH.
It is generally good practice to first check LH/FSH/Prolactin as abnormal levels can warrant an MRI to make sure there is not an issue with the pituitary. This is a rare situation, but has to be considered.