The 5/25 numbers are after two months of 12.5 mg/day.
Subjectively, notable improvement in processing speed. E.g., less response lag to driving inputs. Less amplitude in irritability. I had no expectations going into this, and the changes were enough to make me go, ‘Well that’s different’.
Negatives: Pretty sure I have to pee one additional time overnight, though this doesn’t seem to be a reported effect. And it seems to have raised heart rate by several BPM. Subject to further monitoring.
Just curious - why did you decide on ordering from BG Pharma, when it seems there are many enclomiphene options from India? Are you in Europe?
They’re lying.
Enclomiphene Citrate 20 mg daily raised my TT to 1300 ng/DL and FT (calculated, not Direct) to 94 pg/DL, but I noticed nothing subjectively. I suspect that the calculated FT may not be as accurate as a Direct FT measurement. Those are fairly high numbers so I am now trying 10 mg daily and will take another test in a few weeks that includes the FT Direct test, not the cheaper calculated version. However, as I said, so far I notice no subjective differences with these higher numbers than from my former low level of TT and below normal level of FT, but it’s still early in the process.
My India Mart search months ago did not find any pure Enclomiphene Citrate, only products mislabeled as such. Looking closely at the labels they seemed to be essentially the same as Clomid which contains both isomers, enclomiphene and zuclomiphene. You do not want to take zuclomiphene because it may affect emotions and may be feminizing and it has a very long half-life. Enclomiphene Citrate will raise FSH, LH, TT, and FT, but without feminizing or emotional effects, so the literature says. So, here is a link to the Enclomiphene Citrate I use: Enclomiphene For Sale | 99% Pure | Fast Shipping | PureRawz
I’ve heard anecdotal reports that raising testosterone with enclomiphene vs with exogenous testosterone does not result in the same user experience at equal blood testosterone levels.
Can you elaborate? Better vs worse? Do the anecdotal reports apply to HCG vs TRT as well?
I tried HCG monotherapy and felt awful on it. It more than 4x my estrogen while only doubling testosterone. Felt very emotional and anxious.
Not sure estrogen levels on TRT but I’ve not used any aromatase inhibitors and I feel fine.
I’ve not tried enclomiphene personally but I read as much as I could from user experiences on TRT vs enclomiphene, and I saw a consistent theme of people who used enclomiphene first and then went to TRT that they felt different at the similar serum testosterone levels.
I have no explanation as to why.
I have a friend who uses enclomiphene and they’ve mentioned how when using it for extended periods of time the effect seems to not be as potent. At one point they mentioned their libido completely vanished on it. Appears to change the emotional state in a way that I think TRT doesn’t do.
How much HCG did you use?
It was a while ago I don’t remember. But I cannot recommend HCG monotherapy.
I haven’t tried it in combination with TRT however. I would use HCG and maybe HMG or FSH as a fertility protocol if needed on TRT.
So Enclomiphene from India, in my experience is generally fake. There may be exceptions - but we should see an increase in LH and FSH. I’ve had many cases with Indian enclomiphene where this plainly doesn’t happen. I actually don’t recall any cases where it does what enclomiphene does. Compounded in the U.S. 100% of the time works. Now as to whether one’s testes produce testosterone in response is variable and age dependent to some degree.
I’m trending toward using gonadorelin for patients with mid range LH with low testosterone and seeing this work very well, and much more cost effectively.
For example, Belmar Pharmacy in Florida has a 500 mcg oral troche that only needs to be taken twice weekly of gonadorelin at about $2 each. Needs an Rx … but still is a great option. Injectable is similarly very cost effective - and I can get that from Mira-Vista Pharmacy in Texas.
My interest in raising T levels stems from the fact that low T, which is often associated with aging, also results in lower energy levels.
My question for you or anyone else in the forum is, did taking enclomiphene result in a subjective increase in your energy?
DesertShores, look for message 133 in this thread where I gave more and better details. However, I have not noticed any subjective difference in how I feel with higher TT and FT when using enclomiphene citrate than when my TT was low and my FT was below normal before enclomiphene. However, it’s still early for me and I plan to take the FT Direct test next time, not the FT calculated version, which I think may not be accurate, since it is the FT that is the real key to any improvements. And, to complicate things even more I’ve read that there may be something called bioavailability of FT which definitely confuses me. So, all I can do is experiment to see if I can find a solution other than testosterone injections.
I did not notice a decrease in energy with low-normal testosterone, but it did effect libido and muscle mass retention on a weight loss phase. Enclomiphene restored both. Afaict, enclomiphene works as advertised.
Taken under medical supervision, clomid lowered my Total T from 244 to 185. Enclomiphene, on the other hand, went too far in the other direction, raising my T to 1200 but also increasing everything else–mood, energy, libido, and aggression. I did not like the aggressiveness. I’m now on testosterone gel, which keeps everything at a moderate but effective level.
It’s a dose issue generally as I have some men on as little as 3 mg daily of Enclomiphene. The DHT needs periodic tracking, as does estradiol. I’ve seen some individuals jump in with 25 mg daily of Enclomiphene … that might work out well, or might have a lot of side effects. I typically start with 1/4th of an enlcomiphene 25 mg so 6.25 mg daily and then recheck everything in 4 weeks. It is reasonable to check an FSH and LH before treatment. If the Testosterone is quite low and the LH is already plenty high, it’s unlikely that clomid or enclomiphene will work, and is likely to cause problems.
I think a long enough time on TRT will render enclomiphene ineffective. HCG acts downstream and can still work.
Either one will work and can be monitored. Enclomiphene is cheaper and more consistent in being able to access. I’ve found Enclomiphene and HCG from India is likely not real - I don’t know the % of cases where this is the case - so make sure you have a good verified source or get through an appropriate pharmacy.
Gonadorelin is an agent I’m using more that increases LH and FSH and one can easily monitor if it is working. This is often used for men whom I’m supporting whatever testicular function they have, but not completely independent of testosterone use, or trying to wean off, or if not on testosterone and are low, using it to increase their testosterone. Much like enclomiphene, but looks a bit cleaner and targeted in its method of increasing LH and FSH.
Fantastic info. Gonadorelin and enclomiphene both increase testicle size too I would imagine? I’ll admit I haven’t gone too far down those wormholes. I know much more about HCG since it’s been around longer and have personal experience with it.
There is more to know, but basically Gonadorelin and Enclomiphene both boost LH (testosterone production in the testes) and FSH (sperm production in the testes) from the pituitary gland.
HCG is an LH analogue, so the testes see it as LH and thus produce more testosterone.
This is naturally dependent on the testes being capable with adequate LH.
It is generally good practice to first check LH/FSH/Prolactin as abnormal levels can warrant an MRI to make sure there is not an issue with the pituitary. This is a rare situation, but has to be considered.
