I use the Instant Pot, which has a yogurt-making feature/button. But it turns off at eight hours, and stays on keep warm mode. I just unplug and replug to do another eight hours. I only do 16 hours. It gets tart.
I use inulin as well. I follow the procedure of Dr. William Davis.
I have not experienced gas side effects.
I make the yogurt for the reuteri. I put about two capsules of BB-12 per half gallon of milk. Haven’t noticed any difference. I prefer oyster mushrooms (pleurotus ostreatus) and shiitake for spermidine.
Molecular targets of spermidine: implications for cancer suppression
the crucial role of polyamines in cell proliferation has also implicated polyamine metabolism in neoplastic diseases, such as cancer. While depleting intracellular polyamine biosynthesis halts tumor growth in mouse models, lifelong external spermidine administration in mice does not increase cancer incidence. In contrast, a series of recent findings points to anti-neoplastic properties of spermidine administration in the context of immunotherapy. Various molecular mechanisms for the anti-aging and anti-cancer properties have been proposed, including the promotion of autophagy, enhanced translational control, and augmented mitochondrial function. For instance, spermidine allosterically activates mitochondrial trifunctional protein (MTP), a bipartite protein complex that mediates three of the four steps of mitochondrial fatty acid (β-oxidation. Through this action, spermidine supplementation is able to restore MTP-mediated mitochondrial respiratory capacity in naïve CD8+ T cells to juvenile levels and thereby improves T cell activation in aged mice. Here, we put this finding into the context of the previously described molecular target space of spermidine.
Yes, add to the milk, then add the Trubiotic bb12 and keep at 100 for 36 hours. The arginine goes to ornithine, putricine, then spermadine if I remember right. I didn’t look it up, but that’s close.
Arginine is good for you anyway as it helps make NO. I don’t know how much to add. I’ve been crunching pills all this time, but have ordered a bag of powder now so to make it easier and cheaper and I think I’ll increase the amount.
Ha ha I just read up and noticed I’ve given varying temperatures and times. I have a lot of trouble using raw goat milk, it can’t go over 12 hours. If I pasteurize it will go longer without separation. Half and half will go the full 36 usually, maybe because they ultra pasteurize or something.
The trubiotic with bb12 and la5 will actually be ok for a range of temperatures, I like body temp or a little more. It’s pretty forgiving.
Apologies for the freeloader question but can someone please summarize in a few sentences what the deal is with yoghurt or any particular bacterial strains? I’ve been skimming the thread and I don’t get it.
seemingly spermidine can’t be detected in the blood stream even after major supplementation so either it’s a nothingburger OR its positive effects are attributable to its metabolite spermine which 80% of it gets broken down into
something something Re: certain bacterial strain plus… inulin as a prebiotic?
Spermidine supplements are nothing burgers. It needs to come from diet. Wheat germ is highly concentrated, 6 table spoons is gives you 10mg spermidine, good source of fiber and potassium as well. Win win
My latest interpretation of the spermidine data was that many of the benefits resulted from conversion of spermidine to its metabolite spermine, therefore testing for spermidine was not the appropriate test.
While I’m waiting for clarification, and since I have a quantity of spermidine on hand, I continue to take 15mg/day in my coffee.
I’m ready to make spermidine yoghurt once I’m convinced it will be worth the effort.
I think much of the value in spermadine is it’s ability to strengthen the gut barrier. Lustgarten talks about it in his book and gives the references. The microbial burden is a big deal for T2D in particular, but all the metabolic stuff that kills you in general. So it’s in the form of spermadine while in the gut, must be converted there, but does that job anyway.
BB12 converts arginine into spermadine in the yogurt, before it gets to your gut. Spermadine is expensive and getting it from food is possible, favorites are cheddar cheese aged more than 3 years, some mushrooms (but it depends on things we can’t control and is a crap shoot), maybe peppers.
People love to use wheat germ, but it is famous for a lectin that opens the gut barrier. It’s so good at opening the gut barrier that drug companies use it with medicine to open the gut so that the medicine can get through. Never mind all the other stuff that comes through with it. Wheat germ will shorten your life IMO.
I got the wheat germ gel pills a while ago but I’m not sure I want to keep taking it long term because I too have read some iffy stuff re: wheat germ.
I do ferment my own water kefir and now and then regular kefir — which I manage to eventually kill, resetting the cycle— so the yogurt idea is appealing.
But what strain of bacteria produces spermidine as a byproduct? I missed that from the thread.
Not too interested in aged cheddar as it tastes like toe jam to me.
May I suggest a master thread of a resource with links to where such things can be purchased? I know it’s time consuming and respect your time so totally fine if you can’t do it. But I feel like I might be missing out in great resources other members have mentioned across scattered threads.
A source of BB-12 at 25 billion CFU per sachet, ships from UK and USA :
Optibac are currently backordered for shipping from USA and recommend ordering from their UK site if you need it soon in USA.
With 10% subscription discount works out to $0.80 per sachet with 25 billion CFU of BB-12 vs $0.30 per capsule with 1 billion CFU for TruBiotics. Might make it possible to get reasonable levels of BB-12 without having to make your own yoghurt.
A comparison of health effects of 4 different B. Lactis strains including BB-12 and BL-04 is on the Optibac website : Bifidobacterium lactis | Database
Unlike BB-12 you can get BL-04 in bulk quantities from a Los Angeles based company : 100 grams of powder for $260, with 500 billion CFU/gram (recommended dose of 0.8-1.6 gm per day, with 400-800 billion CFU, also includes a child measure of 0.1gm with 50 billion CFU) : B. Lactis Probiotic Powder - Custom Probiotics
Miller did not detect spermidine in mice. But the Japanese detected it in human blood.
Although the blood spermidine/spermine ratio in mice did not change after increased polyamine intake,this ratio did decrease in human volunteers. The difference in blood spermidine/spermine ratio between mice and human volunteers might be due to a species difference, differences in the ratios of spermine/spermidine loaded, and differences in the intestinal environment such as endogenous flora.
Lifelong spermidine supplementation via drinking water is sufficient to prolong the lifespan of adult female and male mice90. Similar effects were observed for spermine but not for putrescine90.
Spermidine also sufficed to prolong the lifespan of pre-aged 18-month-old mice90 and short-lived male mice with progeria (Zmpste24−/− mice)171 .
Likewise, daily injections late in life caused a nonsignificant lifespan extension in mice102 and polyamine-enriched food prolonged the lifespan of aging mice172 , suggesting that the mode of administration is of little importance for the longevity effects.
Interestingly, the upregulation of intestinal polyamine production in 14-month-old mice by feeding the prebiotic arginine combined with the probiotic bifidobacteria LKM512 (equipped with the enzymatic machinery to convert arginine into spermidine) is sufficient to prolong lifespan and reduce the incidence of age-related diseases173 ,174 .
While the cardioprotective effects of spermidine could mechanistically be linked to autophagy90, only one mechanistic lifespan study has been conducted in mammalian models. In the study by Yue et al., lifespan extension and autophagy induction by spermidine feeding were abolished in autophagy-deficient male Map1s-knockout mice52.
Fewer studies have been carried out on rats: in salt-sensitive Dahl rats, spermidine exerts systemic cardioprotective effects90. One study found no impact on life expectancy but a significant healthspan-extending effect in middle-aged male Sprague-Dawley rats175.
This is where the strain LKM512 comes in. LKM512 was rebranded to BB12. As Tananth posted above ,it can be sourced from the UK. From Amazon, BB12 is Trubiotic.
First sentence above says spermidine supplementation is sufficient to prolong lifespan. Same effect from spermine. That ties in with the post of CTStan about spermine.
