Side Effects of Rapamycin (part 2)

Not sure what you mean by “2+2” as it does not correspond with any of the actual numbers - any significant synergistic gain matters because there will be more options in the future. We already saw synergistic gains in rapa+met (which btw Dr. Green prescribes routinely) - combination drugs are definitely the future for things like Alzheimer’s that you will encounter in lifespan extension to get the best possible healthspan/“mindspan” the key question is how to manage them. The tradeoffs are just too big to ignore for me personally. It’s pretty likely dementia will be the leading cause of death (and limiting factor to healthy lifespan) when you reduce cancer/heart disease with rapa/rapa combos.

Even Dr. K’s partner said it himself it’s priority:

Anyways, the benefits of acarbose in the ITP were not limited to male mice though.

And there are secondary mechanisms to acarbose that Dr. Green appears to have missed (he’s more on the rapa+met train), as he implies acarbose is no different than very low-carb diet. That would be a massive oversimplification. Dr. Miller of the ITP has been trying to push for acarbose to move quicker in human trials as one of the safest options, and he even quietly mentioned once he takes it himself (he doesn’t take metformin)

Microbiome metabolites are a big part and those generated in acarbose has an AMPK mechanism (among many others) - which is a central target of metformin. Gut microbiota is closely linked to human aging.

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If truly additive

2+2 = 4
&
22+23 = 45

But

22+23 = 29

And therefore

2+2 = 4x(29/45) = 2.57*

And remember all these numbers were for the median not the 90th percentile

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I just shared that anecdote for interest.

I actually think Acarbose looks very promising but I’ve chosen my horse… my single variable. In any case, as I’ve demonstrated above, there are diminishing returns from stacking interventions.

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Got it - that helps - but I don’t think I’ve ever said or implied it would be “2+2=4”, so I’m not sure where that came from unless you were responding to someone else.

Aging simply cannot be managed with one agent. It’s no surprise that not many researchers are betting it all on a single agent as the future, including Dr. Green (since you mentioned him) who has a personal cocktail and more extensive anti-aging regimen than mine while risking more serious drug interactions - yet he seems to be chugging along. His choice of antibiotics appears to be possibly dangerous for some people. Maybe he’s right about the combination and I’d be happy to change my mind on adding on even more - I simply can’t say with any guarantee - and it doesn’t feel like he’s particularly certain either. But it does seem he’s genuinely happy about his results so far.

We already know the effects of each agent mentioned - acarbose, metformin, and rapamycin share some pathways with IGF-1/insulin/inflammation-related cytokines - as well as mTOR - the key questions for me for managing combination drugs are:

  1. Whether it would be no significant synergistic qualities and/or substantial negative effects.

  2. Like any medicine, rapamycin has known side effects. How can we reduce it without reducing efficacy?

Rational combinations can reduce side effects. Using principles of rational drug combinations happens all the time in medicine to reduce side effects while increasing therapeutic efficacy.

Now if one were to apply your belief to bet only on one horse with only one life extension method with the highest level of evidence possible, the classic “life extension” pill commonly used in medicine right now is seen all the time in medicine:

statin, B-blocker, ACEi, aspirin, folic acid

Rapamycin isn’t even at the “weak recommendation” level btw. So it would make absolutely no sense to bet on rapamycin as the single best horse if we use that belief system.

If we didn’t touch combination drugs - the death rates for the elderly would be much higher. But nobody with the classic medicine approach believes in a “2+2=4” you’re talking about - widely known there are overlapping pathways. That can be managed.

The main disadvantage I see in all population-based “Cnidean School of Medicine” approaches out there (whether classic “life extension” pill in medicine or rapamycin only) is the neglect of “precision medicine” approaches and personalized regimens to adjust. That is a big downside to recommending a single monotherapy/combination drug regimen for everyone with that ultra-minimalistic strategy.

The most common example is thiazide/long-acting DHP-CCB for African-Americans instead of ACEi. It’s not quite “precision” enough - but easier to conceptualize.

It might turn out that your bet on rapamycin may reduce lifespan in your specific case. We have seen evidence of that before with calorie restriction.

In fact, Hippocrates first expressed both principles - “precision medicine” in “Coen School of Medicine” principles, on top of “food as medicine”. This is also the approach of the Okinawan centenarians when you look at the way they applied principles of personalized TCM combinations & “food as medicine”. Unfortunately, neither had simulation capabilities, molecular and genetic tests we can run today, nor do they have the vast range of real-time data options to analyze in detail. But they still did exceptionally well for what it’s worth. The main difficulty is in finding the right experts to check my homework, since there’s so much information to sift through and re-validate.

If you’re already set on sticking to one - that’s a personal decision based on your beliefs and I can respect that. It doesn’t necessarily mean it would be the “best” solution for every individual. If anything, there are many signs it wouldn’t be in terms of results, such that the consensus for researchers in the field taking rapamycin appears to be overwhelmingly towards combination approaches. And if dementia becomes no. 1 with cancer/CVD reduced with rapa/rapa combos - combination drug screening (Dr. MK included) for Alzheimer’s are already gaining traction due to the long track record of failures in monotherapy.

I simply have a different approach to medicine while balancing risks rooted in a hybrid belief system. Maybe it will turn out to be a bad decision, I can’t guarantee that it works for me (or anyone else) - it’s also not even a “weak recommendation”, but it seems to work in multiple animals and I’ve tried different cocktails on enough dogs in terms of empirical testing - enough for me to place my bets and carefully monitor therapy with my team.

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It’s certainly true that for the majority of diseases combination approaches both increase efficacy while reducing side effects. If aging is a disease, then I would expect similar results.
It’s a good bet.

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There’s no doubt that there can be a great deal of sadness and loneliness attached to longevity , and it’s something that most of us don’t really think about.
Thanks for that reminder.

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@desertshores - I think your albumin, CRP should be green and alkaline phosphatase should be yellow.

The most notable changes are your glucose and MCV, which improved, and RDW, which got much worse (from 11.7% to 13.0%), resulting in a much higher biological age. The other biomarkers didn’t change that much. Note that RDW is the biggest driver in this calculator. Did you do anything different in this 8 months, other than rapa, that could explain the change in RDW?

RDW is somewhat of a mystery to me, in terms of how to influence it. Michael Lustgarten mentioned in a comment for his video dated 7/24/22 that total calories and fructose intake are correlated with RDW. He may discuss this in his next video on 7/31/22.

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What is the natural acarbose? The natural mTOR inhibitor? Thanks!!!

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Weird things happen with these age calculators. A COVID vaccine aged me 20 years according to one test. Take the results with a grain of salt, and you need to do more tests to get a better baseline.

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Yes, I could have screwed that up. I was toggling back and forth between the new values and the old values to see which way the bottom line went. Some changes had very little effect so I probably misread them.

Of course, this was just one data set, and yes, there are always variables in diet, supplements, etc. But, my best guess is:
This spring a caught a mild case of covid in spite of having three Pfizer covid vaccine shots.

I have noticed in the past before I started taking rapamycin that after I gave a blood donation, my RDW decreased after a few weeks.

Today I plugged my latest results into still another biomarker test.

The Aging AI Deep Biomarker test is in near agreement with the Levine test, for me anyway.

Interestingly, adding more biomarkers, up to 1066 input parameters does not significantly increase the accuracy.

This also has me aging faster. The last time I took it, I said I was 64. I like this test because it doesn’t ask your age before the test.

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@desertshores - Ah, it could be COVID.

Also, I read that blood donation seems to be beneficial, which is consistent with the fact that your RDW went down afterwards.

Btw, for the Levine calculator, it’s better to have higher albumin and lymphocyte and lower values for all the other biomarkers.

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Thank you for simplifying it for me. Somewhere else I came across a simplified weighting factor for each of the variables, but I cannot find it.
I did color in some more greens, but unfortunately it didn’t reduce my phenotypic age.

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@desertshores - Oh, I think you missed one - alkaline phosphatase is yellow. Yeah, despite the green ones, the biggest driver is RDW and the increase basically overrode all the positive changes.

It’s very interesting - your red blood cells got smaller (MCV decreased from 91.4 to 87.1), which is good, and yet your RDW (distribution of the size of red blood cells) increased, which is not good.

I just read online that oxidative stress and inflammation can increase RDW.

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I really hope Aging.AI is accurate because it tells me I am 28 years old. I’m almost 20 years older than that!!!

Unfortunately, I did the test with my blood tests from 2 years ago when I was only taking metformin and it said I was 26 years old. Although I was taking 2 g/day before and now I am taking 500 mg/every other day. So it seems all the other supplements seemed to have little to no effect…

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Creatinine assumes a constant average musculature, if you gained musculature your creatinine would rise too even if your kidney function stayed the same or improved. High albumin is good too, not bad

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In my case, it has been pretty accurate as it returns almost the same age as the Levine calculator.
Some have reported the Ai calculator returns a younger age. The Ai calculator does not include age in its variables.

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I have been using the Levine calculator for a long time before I started taking rapamycin. The spreadsheet is just showing the last two blood tests. Now I will be having my blood work done every two months. I definitely feel better after taking rapamycin for ~9 months.

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any special protocol to deal with canker sores.

Lysine, baking soda in warm water, and tomatoes put directly on them. I tried these and they work.

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Peter Attia recently said he uses Debacterol.

Details here:

Product example:

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I find that I am experiencing glucose-related side-effects. My body is a bit odd that when my blood sugar spikes, my eyes water and my head feels a bit funny. I’ve come to learn this after eating too much sugar or carbs on occassion throughout my life. After taking the 2 mg of Rapa with GFJ, this side-effect has become more sensitive and I get this side-effect at a lower threshold - for exampe eating rice, where it shouldn’t usually happen. I have increased my Metformin dosage from 500 mg every other day to 1 g daily, and that seems to help quite a bit.

Also, from 1mg to 2 mg, I got hit with more fatigue/nausea. After 1 mg + GFJ + 500 mg Spermidine, I would feel a euphoric fatigue for a day and then bounce back the next. At 2 mg +GFJ + 500 mg Spermidine, the fatigue lasts for 2 days and is sometimes euphoric and sometimes nauseating. On the 3rd day I feel fantastic and energetic though. I did switch from Rapamune to Zydus during this time. I took 1 mg Rapamune + GFJ for 4 weeks and 2 mg Rapamune +GFJ for 1 week before switching to Zydus (cost issues).

Has anyone felt anything similar? I do take a lot of supplements, so it may be other confounding factors. However, I do think that this fatigue/euphoria cycle is related to Rapa/autophagy.

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