Rapamycin Conservation (stretching your supply)

Given the situation with the global shipments and new tariffs/taxes and duties on international products, and the fact that I’ve gotten used to the independence of being able to choose exactly what longevity medications I want to try, and when … with only minimal work with my doctor, I’m a little concerned about how long my current inventory of rapamycin will last.

We know that ketoconazole provides about a 5.6X multiplier effect on the bioavailability of rapamycin as outlined in this thread: Improve Bioavailability of Rapamycin (2)

So, I’ve decided to start using some Ketoconazole in my dosing program. It turns out I have a good amount of it because I purchased it for use in my DIY hair tonics I’ve been trying - so already have plenty of it to last a few years (at once per week dosing).

But, of course you have to be careful with Ketoconazole because of how it can also impact other medications you may be taking, or supplements.

So here is my approach that I’ve taken:

I looked at the Ketoconazole interactions with supplements to make sure there were no contraindications with anything I’m currently taking:

Yes — ketoconazole can affect certain supplements, mainly because it is both:

  1. A strong inhibitor of CYP3A4, the liver enzyme that metabolizes many compounds.
  2. A potent inhibitor of P-glycoprotein (P-gp), a transporter that pumps drugs and supplements out of cells (especially in the gut and brain).
  3. A drug with its own toxicity (notably to the liver), which can add to risks from hepatotoxic supplements.

Here’s a breakdown:


1. Supplements impacted via CYP3A4 inhibition

If a supplement is normally cleared by CYP3A4, ketoconazole can cause its levels to rise, increasing side effects. Examples include:

  • St. John’s Wort (though this is more a CYP3A4 inducer; if someone stops St. John’s Wort while on ketoconazole, levels of other drugs/supplements can rise unpredictably).
  • Resveratrol, quercetin, and other flavonoids — partially metabolized by CYP enzymes; ketoconazole could theoretically raise their levels.
  • DHEA and other steroidal supplements — metabolized through CYP3A pathways; effects may be amplified.

2. Supplements impacted via P-gp inhibition

  • Curcumin and berberine are substrates of P-gp. Inhibiting P-gp with ketoconazole may increase absorption and systemic exposure, potentially intensifying GI upset or liver stress.
  • Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) and some polyphenols are also affected by P-gp; ketoconazole could raise bioavailability.

3. Liver toxicity overlap

Ketoconazole itself is hepatotoxic. Combining it with supplements that also stress the liver increases risk:

  • Green tea extract (EGCG in high doses)
  • Kava
  • Black cohosh
  • Red yeast rice (contains lovastatin-like compounds)
  • High-dose niacin

These combinations can magnify liver enzyme elevations or, in rare cases, cause severe liver injury.


4. Other possible interactions

  • Caffeine (common in pre-workouts, green tea, yerba mate) → levels may increase, leading to jitters or palpitations.
  • Grapefruit-derived supplements (naringenin, bergamot) → already CYP3A4 inhibitors; combined with ketoconazole, they may over-amplify interactions.

:white_check_mark: Summary:

  • Ketoconazole can raise blood levels of supplements metabolized by CYP3A4 or pumped by P-gp.
  • The biggest practical concern is liver safety, since many herbal supplements already have hepatotoxic potential.
  • Caution and monitoring are warranted if someone takes ketoconazole along with herbal extracts (curcumin, berberine, green tea extract, kava, red yeast rice, black cohosh, etc.) or hormonal supplements (DHEA, pregnenolone).

Then I checked my Statin’s potential for interaction:

Pravastatin and ketoconazole generally do not have a major interaction, unlike other statins such as simvastatin, lovastatin, or atorvastatin. Here’s why:

Mechanism

  • Ketoconazole is a strong inhibitor of the CYP3A4 enzyme, which metabolizes many statins.
  • Pravastatin, however, is not significantly metabolized by CYP3A4. It is primarily cleared through non-CYP pathways (such as sulfation and renal excretion).

Clinical significance

  • Because pravastatin avoids CYP3A4 metabolism, the risk of increased blood levels (and muscle toxicity like myopathy/rhabdomyolysis) is much lower compared to other statins when taken with ketoconazole.
  • There is no well-documented harmful interaction between pravastatin and ketoconazole in the major drug interaction databases.

Minor considerations

  • Both drugs can affect the liver: pravastatin can rarely elevate liver enzymes, and ketoconazole is known for hepatotoxicity risk. Using them together doesn’t directly amplify metabolism-related risk, but periodic liver function monitoring is reasonable if combined.
  • Always watch for general side effects of statins (muscle pain, weakness, dark urine), even if the interaction risk is low.

:white_check_mark: Summary:
Pravastatin and ketoconazole can generally be used together safely, with no major pharmacokinetic interaction expected. The main caution would be overlapping liver effects, so monitoring is prudent.

Ketoconazole impact on Empagliflozin (SGLT1 inhibitor)

let’s look at empagliflozin (Jardiance) with ketoconazole.

Metabolism of empagliflozin

  • Empagliflozin is primarily cleared unchanged in urine and feces.
  • Metabolism plays only a minor role. When it is metabolized, it goes mainly through UGT enzymes (glucuronidation, UGT2B7, UGT1A3, UGT1A8, UGT1A9).
  • CYP enzymes (like CYP3A4) are not significant in empagliflozin metabolism.

Effect of ketoconazole

  • Ketoconazole is a strong CYP3A4 inhibitor, but since empagliflozin is not CYP3A4 dependent, there’s no meaningful pharmacokinetic interaction.
  • Clinical studies have shown that co-administration with CYP3A4 inhibitors (like ketoconazole or verapamil) does not significantly alter empagliflozin blood levels.

Practical considerations

  • No dose adjustment of empagliflozin is recommended with ketoconazole.
  • The main cautions with empagliflozin remain the usual ones: risk of urinary/genital infections, dehydration, hypotension, and rare ketoacidosis — but ketoconazole does not amplify these.

:white_check_mark: Summary:
No significant interaction exists between empagliflozin and ketoconazole, because empagliflozin is cleared mostly by glucuronidation and excretion, not by CYP3A4. Safe to use together without dose adjustment.


Would you like me to extend this and create a table of SGLT2 inhibitors (empagliflozin, dapagliflozin, canagliflozin, ertugliflozin) showing whether ketoconazole (or other CYP3A4 inhibitors) meaningfully affect each one?

And I did the same thing for all medications I take.

Then I dove more into the specific details on ketoconazole:

Ketoconazole has a relatively short plasma half-life:

  • Initial distribution half-life: about 2 hours
  • Terminal elimination half-life: usually 6–10 hours after a single dose

With repeated dosing, the half-life can become somewhat longer (around 8 hours), due to saturation of hepatic metabolism.

Because it is extensively metabolized in the liver (CYP3A4 substrate and inhibitor), clearance can vary depending on liver function and drug–drug interactions.

Do you want me to also give you a table comparing the half-life of ketoconazole to other common azole antifungals (like fluconazole, itraconazole, voriconazole) for context?

For oral ketoconazole, the T-max (time to reach peak plasma concentration) is typically:

  • 1 to 2 hours after administration when taken with food (which enhances absorption).
  • Absorption is reduced and sometimes delayed if taken on an empty stomach or with low gastric acidity (e.g., when combined with antacids, proton pump inhibitors, or H2 blockers).

So, under usual dosing conditions with food and normal gastric acidity, expect T-max ≈ 1–2 hours.

Would you like me to also put this into a PK summary table (half-life, T-max, bioavailability, metabolism, excretion) for ketoconazole?

So my action plan has been to:

  1. Take 200mg of ketoconazole with food about 1 hour prior to taking rapamycin
  2. Take 2mg of rapamycin, which should be equivalent to about 11mg regular rapamycin dosing.

Anyone else doing anything like this now, given the India shipment halt?

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Wow, that’s a comprehensive survey…:slightly_smiling_face:

Luckily, Im not in the US, so no (obvious) restrictions from Indian shipments coming into this country other than potential interceptions by Canada Customs…at any rate, I have enough Rapamune pills to last me couple of years…plus I always stretch the dosing with GFJ at the same time… :wink:

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Interesting and valid approach for you. I’m taking a different route. My stash will last anywhere from 3 to 5 years - there’s a spread, because I am accounting for possible dose escalation as well as the possible addition of other members of the household.

But taking the worst case scenario, I am gambling that 3 years is enough time for the situation of rapamycin availability to resolve itself. Even if direct imports from India are permanently shut down (though I have some faith that enterprising Indians will find a way😁), there are options, including indirect shipments (for example to Mexico and traveling there to pick up), and travel to India itself or other countries. Friends can bring it in from other countries (both I and a ton of friends are constantly travelling - a year’s stash is easy to bring in one trip), or even a paid courier. And I suppose ultimately one can bite the bullet and get it prescribed from a local doctor and buy here.

All those measures increase cost. But personally, I’d rather pay a little more to avoid complications of combining rapamycin with other drugs to extend its action. A short vacation in Mexico or Costa Rica is really not that bad. And even if I pay 2-3 times as much for rapa in the US, I think it’s worth it.

Yes, it’s a hassle and the era of cheap rapa from India is likely gone forever, but obtaining rapa will always be possible and beats - in my mind - the uncertainty, dangers and complications of adding other drugs for the sole purpose of extending your stash… because, ultimately, you’ll run out anyway, and will have to look at the other options I outlined anyway, so what are you really gaining - a little time while taking a risk, plus obtaining another drug is also a hassle and has a monetary costs.

Doesn’t make any sense to me, BWDIK, and YMMV.

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A bigger problem is that this applies to all meds from India. How are we getting all the meds - some of us are taking 6-10 other meds (just myself - empa, BA+EZ, pita, telmi, pio, prospectively others). You get to that number and now it’s a problem. Some of these meds are also very expensive here in the US. At that point, it really comes down to placing an order with an Indian vendor, shipping to Country X, and picking it up there, though crossing the border with 10 different meds each 300-500 pills starts to be dicey.

It’s a problem for sure. I’m hoping - but it’s a weak hope - that the next administration will return to a measure of sanity, otherwise it’ll become a nasty problem. We’ll see. Not panicking yet, though the water is reaching chin levels.

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I and many others have been using grapefruit juice to extend our supply. While maybe not as effective as ketoconazole, it is arguably safer and cheaper.

What I had overlooked in the past is how long the effect of GFJ lasts, up to 72 hours.
I have noticed the effect of GFJ on my other meds, such as metoprolol and telmisartan.
Even though GFJ doesn’t have nearly the effect, there is a ~1.3-fold increase in the AUC for the drugs that I am taking.

I believe this is why I sometimes feel a little shaky in the morning of the next day after I take rapamycin. In the future I will monitor my blood pressure to see what effect the GFJ has.

How long does grapefruit juice inhibit CYP3A4?

"Short answer: typically about 24–72 hours after a single glass, and longer with repeated intake.

Why: Grapefruit’s furanocoumarins irreversibly inactivate intestinal CYP3A4, so your body must synthesize new enzyme before normal metabolism returns. That turnover generally takes 1–3 days; repeated juice over several days can deepen and prolong the effect, and in some drug-specific studies the interaction potential didn’t fully dissipate for 3–7 days after stopping high-dose juice. Spacing a pill a few hours from grapefruit does not reliably prevent the interaction."

The number of drugs where GFJ causes a strong degree of CYP3A inhibition (AUC ratio ≥ 5) is quite small—Table 1. In fact, the majority of affected drugs exhibit AUC ratios between 1.0 and 2.0 in the presence of GFJ. Nevertheless, avoidance of GFJ may be prudent in some clinical contexts.”

“Even a single 8–12 oz serving 2 hours prior should substantially raise rapamycin AUC—plan for ~3× as a prudent working estimate unless you have troughs/peaks to confirm.”

The effect of grapefruit juice on drug disposition - PMC
Management of Grapefruit-Drug Interactions | AAFP
Phase 1 Studies of Sirolimus Alone or in Combination with Pharmacokinetic Modulators in Advanced Cancer Patients - PMC

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GoodRx coupon at CVS

Maybe more expensive than India but not much trouble.
6 mg per week comes under $500 year.

…ketoconazole provides about a 5.6X multiplier…

“Even a single 8–12 oz serving 2 hours prior should substantially raise rapamycin AUC—plan for ~3× as a prudent working estimate unless you have troughs/peaks to confirm.”

Starts to get reasonable.

GoodRx coupon:

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Another Cdn here, I currently have a Rap order being held somewhere at the entry point, can’t tell if it’s customs or not but it’s been held for 10 days now.

I had received a shipment 2 months ago from the same company with no issues.

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Who here is on Rapamycin and Doxycycline regimen, if yes, how to dose?

“Because mTOR hyper-activity and mitochondrial dysfunction are mutually reinforcing pillars of aging, low-dose rapamycin (intermittent) plus doxycycline pulses is being explored as a synergistic strategy: one re-tunes the signalling hub, the other repairs the downstream “batteries,” together damping sterile inflammation and extending health-span .” from AI

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Hey Jonas,

Been on Doxycycline 2 pills 100 mg each… total 200 mg once a week (one 100 mg pill every 3 days) since… Blagosklonny mentioned it a few years ago.

I have finally settled on 6 mg zydus… rapamycin weekly. No GFJ or anything. Straight drug.

FYI… my sterile inflammation is pretty non-existent from years of glycan testing results.

Biological inflammation age 42 to 46 years… chronological age 67.5 years.

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Unlike GFJ, I am not too sure how safe long term ketoconazole path is going to be given all the wide range of afotementioned interactions.

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My thoughts also. Grapefruit is easily available and won’t risk your liver

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I wouldn’t add another drug into the mix, especially not a dirty (or “promiscuous” is the proper term, haha) drug like ketoconazole. Liver toxic, impacts P-gp and CYP3A4. It also inhibits steroid hormone production.

I’d rather stump up the extra money to pay whatever additional costs, or use grapefruit juice.

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Now I’m concerned. I’ve just ordered a good supply out of India, coming by way of the UAE. I’m sure hoping I don’t run into issues at the border!

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Keep us informed, please.

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My rapa stash is around 300mg so at my current dosing 12mg/month, its enough for a couple of years. I have taken it with keta before, but now I’m more cautious. IDK the “proper” dosing for me, so I’ve varied dosing over the years.

If I decide to increase dosing I’ll consider keta, but I take alot of medicines that would be effected. So I’d take 200mg keta the night before rapa dosing, 200mg keta on waking/coffee, then rapa after breakfast. Also for that day, I wouldn’t take any other drugs/supplements. I figure I can miss one day a month of even “critical” meds like blood pressure meds, and occasionally I do miss doses, that’s life.

From previous self-experimentation, I’ve got more than 100 doses of keta. So a large varied stash is great to have in hard times, never can tell what you might need.

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Matt K uses an intermittent Rapa protocol which has been shown in mice studies to be just as effective, and it limits some of the downsides such as hypolomepia and mTor1 issues. I use 12 weeks on 8 weeks off.with 8 gr/ 1x a week
Be careful, you don’t about your immune system
I use 12 weeks on, 10 weeks off with

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does the amount of GFJ matter? I have been taking 12oz 1hr prior to dosing because I had seen 8-12oz as the common amount being taken. But I wonder if drinking say; 16oz would increase the effect more than 8 or 12 oz?

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I eat 2 whole grapefruits. So that’s what I go with. :smile:

A single grapefruit has 5-6 ounces of juice.

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A thought… you might want to take GFJ at least 2 hours before rapamycin dose.

I was taking fresh GFJ with my rapamycin dose. Didn’t move the needle one bit. As if taking with no GFJ. FYI.

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I had read elsewhere on here a couple of times that 1 to 1 1/2 hr before dosing was a good time frame so I usually dose about 75 mins after GFJ.

I’m trying to find out if drinking a larger amount say 16oz or so gives a greater multiplier.

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