“Previous clinical studies have demonstrated that pantethine is well tolerated, with a low occurrence of side effects at dosages from 600 to 1,200 mg/day.Citation32,Citation34”
They don’t show a scatter chart or the ranges of LDL reduction. The 11% appears to be the average reduction. Also, they apparently titrated up to reduce side effects but I have had none at 600mg/day. Maybe I am an unusual responder but adding Pantethine reduced my LDL by more the 11%. Dr. Ross has convinced me that I do not want to take a statin except as a last resort. My future tests will tell me if Pantethine alone will keep me in the low normal range. If you can’t get a statin I would certainly try Pantethine.
7 Likes
It seems unwise to exclude using statins based on the opinion of a single doctor when decades of clinical research proves the safety and effectiveness of statins. They should always be your first choice of treatment together with exercise and a better diet. Even a low dose of 5mg of rosuvastatin can suppress over 40% of your LDL which is 4x as much as pantethine.
6 Likes
I am a great fan of Pantethine. It has a known side effect in encouraging bruising to last which people need to be aware of. Hence if you get bruises best to drop it for a bit.
Basically it provides more co enzyme A because it does not have rate limit of Vitamin B5. This means also if you drink alcohol it accelerates conversion of Acetaldehyde into acetate. I must admit that this has led me astray recently and I have decided to cut back on my drinking which has been excessive even for me.
4 Likes
I took statins for decades with beneficial results and no adverse side effects.
Because of my diet, exercise, and low BMI, if I were to go to a new doctor today he would not prescribe a statin because all of my lipid tests, including ApoB, are in the low normal range.
As you get older it becomes increasingly hard to keep blood glucose in the normal range.
There is evidence that statins increase the risk of type II diabetes in old people.
“Statins may accelerate progression to diabetes via molecular mechanisms that impact insulin resistance and cellular metabolism of carbohydrates. It remains clear that the benefit of statin therapy outweighs the risk of developing diabetes.”
Since I no longer need a statin to stay in the normal range for lipids and an abundance of caution I no longer take a statin.
4 Likes
Pantethine sounds very interesting and I’m going to give it a try. But……
It sounds like you’re arguing against statins when you don’t need to be taking one, and the scientific evidence is overwhelmingly positive for people that have high Lipids.
An open question is whether or not Pantethine would improve all cause mortality. Niacin famously has similar effects as statins, yet doesn’t improve all-cause mortality. Pantethine would need to be put to the test in a much larger set of subjects to discern whether or not it would help in the long run.
1 Like
I’d not heard of Pantethine until this discussion… seems like something that might help people, of course there is also the issue its not well tested in terms of clinical trials, or interactions with other drugs, etc. so I’m not sure its lower risk than statins or other drugs for lowering lipid levels:
1 Like
Has been know for some time to effect cholesterol.
I have posted/stated before, in my view their are many{a plethora] of compounds to try before even thinking about a statin.
Yes, I will get the wise ass comments, and I will not reply.
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what is not true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
~ Soren Kierkegaard
As a type 1 diabetic, my endo has been pushing for years for me to start a statin. I tried a low-dose of rosuvastatin this year, and it was quite effective: it lowered my my LDL by at least 1/3, and raised my fasting blood sugar from 80 to 125 (with the same exogenous insulin). Just to be sure it wasn’t coincidental, as blood sugars for a T1 are highly variable, I tried again three more times after washout periods. Each time, after 3-5 days, my fasting glucose and post-prandial numbers climbed a lot. Higher blood sugars dramatically increase heart problems, far more than high cholesterol, so this is not acceptable to me.
1 Like
You misread me. To be clear, I took statins for decades beginning at the time I became overweight. They certainly helped me. When I no longer needed them because my lipids had returned to normal levels through diet and exercise I quit taking them.
When I first started rapamycin some of my lipid levels rose above “normal” levels and I started taking a statin again. Again after adjusting my diet and losing even more weight I once again got them back into the normal range. After adding Pantethine my lipids decreased to the low normal range and I have quit taking statins. A. Because I don’t need them at this time. And, B. because there are some dangers involved with older people taking them. While the risk is small, I really don’t need the statins.
I am certainly in favor of people who need statins to control their lipid levels to take them.
6 Likes
desert shores, can you share which brand of Pantethine you use? Dose?
Of course:
I am presently taking 300 mg daily. After my next lipid blood work I will decide what dose I want to take.
4 Likes
I take Pantethine when I drink (which is the minority of days normally although around Christmas this may be different). My LDL-C wanders above and below the UK threshold of 3 milliomolar, but because I don’t fast for blood tests specifically it may be an unreliable measure.
There was research in the 1940s or 50s that found B5 to be an active ingredient in the longevity effects of Royal Jelly. I may try to find that paper if people ask for it. Pantethine is a non rate limited version of B5 which is a CoA precursor.
Unsurprisingly CoA is a precursor to Acetyl-CoA.
The Acetyl-CoA pathways (one of which leads to creating cholesterol) are really important and it is not surprising that additional B5 vitaminers have some broader effects.
Pantethine itself, however, can increase bleeding. (potential stroke risk?)
5 Likes
I don’t think that there is much risk from Pantethine causing a hemorrhagic stroke.
“People over age 75 are around 5 times more likely to have an ischemic stroke compared to people in their 50s.”
"Hemorrhagic stroke accounts for about 13% of strokes. It occurs when a blood vessel ruptures and bleeds into the brain.
“People over 75 are around 2-3 times more likely to have a hemorrhagic stroke compared to people in their 50s.”
“Overall, the disproportionate increase in ischemic vs hemorrhagic stroke with age has been demonstrated in population-based studies like the Framingham Heart Study and Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities (ARIC) study.”
"The total 5-year stroke risk (hazard rate) increased with age, from 3.54 (95% CI: 0-7.55)
per 1000 persons at risk at age 50 years, to 119.05 (95% CI: 45.39-192.70) at age
90 years. The stroke prevalence peaked at age 80 and older, with about 120 cases
per 1000 years of observation. The survival rate (cumulative proportion free from
stroke) at age 98 was 50.0%."
Bottom line: I am much more likely to have an ischemic vs hemorrhagic stroke.
The thought of a stroke terrifies me. I have seen too many sad cases in my lifetime.
At my age, I would rather die than have a severe stroke.
5 Likes
Thank you. This is very helpful.
Has anyone tried pantethine with statins? Or has anyone noticed a LDL-lowering effect with the 300mg dose?
1 Like
N=1
I take atorvastatin 40 mg tablet and 600 mg daily and my lipid panel is near perfect.
The Pantethine lowers my LDL by another 20% over the statin alone.
I think Pantethine is superior to any other over-the-counter supplement that I have tried as regards lowering cholesterol levels.
5 Likes
In my experience, Pradaxa + Pantethine = huge bruises.
If one takes an anticoagulant, one might want to consider this.
1 Like
This bruising issue is a known issue with Pantethine in isolation.
I have had no bruising issues with Pantethine. Zero side effects whatsoever except for the lowering of my cholesterol.
Vitamin C plus Vitamin K “(K2 MK7 / Vitamin K2 MK4 / Vitamin K1) Full Spectrum” has eliminated completely, what I would call elderly bruising that is commonly seen on old people.
1 Like