Given what we saw in another thread on topical rapamycin and hair regrowth, I think periodontal delivery is well worth pursuing.
@DyingSucks idea of using a delivery vehicle like DSMO/Rapamycin (or other safe excipient) and whitening tray moulded teeth overlays is eminently doable. I have an old tray set from a previous conventional intervention, might explore this. Perhaps use the same formulation for hair and teeth!
The reason you need a professional cleaning if you have pockets >3mm is because local medication cannot penetrate deeper than that. For local treatment of pockets there are special chips that need to be deposited in the pocket
Not an expert, but I don’t touch teeth whitening (especially OTC) due to some unknowns. I also don’t touch dental whitening. I’ll happily accept that I’ll have some staining - has nothing to do with teeth health. If anything, the polyphenols that stain decrease dental plaque accumulation so I can avoid going to the dentists who X-ray way more than needed (I personally only go every 2 years based on individual risk factors).
Every single dentist I’ve been to so far won’t listen to American Thyroid Assn professional guidelines which shows substantial thyroid cancer risks. (There are other risks, this is just the most obvious one). Therefore, I’m not convinced many dentists really care about my health or even know about these issues, rather than just trying to bill more to justify their equipment purchases.
AFAIK, the effects on your enamel are cumulative, even with dental supervision. Can’t say for sure it would be mitigated by only doing it every few years. Perhaps someone can chine in.
“From a formulation standpoint, DMSO viscosity is similar to water and DMSO can serve as a way to lower formulation viscosity.
The addition of traditional thickening agents (Carbopol®, Klucel®, Methocel®, Tylose®) can be a way to increase DMSO viscosity allowing for optimally designed dosage forms.”
https://www.gaylordchemical.com/markets/pharmaceuticals/
Any other thoughts vehicle and thickening agents?
I seem to have no more issues with my early stage PD after taking pulsed-dose rapa for several years, now. No bleeding, ever, and I hate speaking in absolutes, but I’m certain my gumline has grown in and no longer feel gaps between tooth and gums. Used to be very noticeable. I’ve also been using, for last 6 months, a homemade methylene blue oral rinse that seems to have improved things even more. I’m pretty pleased not to be experiencing any discomfort anymore and hopefully a dentist visit will confirm improvements. ( ADDING FOR FULL DISCLOSRE: I also began to use an electric toothbrush a year or two, ago, so that’s likely helped, as well. Pretty dramatic though, no matter what)
DSMO- I use to make my skin cream works great!
RapAdmin, I’ll admit that I have not read everything in this topic. If I had I would probably know the answer to my question. How was the Rapamycin administered to the oral cavity of the mice in the “Rapamycin Rejuvenates Oral Health in Aging Mice” experiment? I envision someone brushing their teeth with Rapamycin Toothpaste, but that doesn’t seem likely. Do you have an answer?
In the first study, it was just regular oral rapamycin consumption like most people here do today. This second study us trying to improve on that with the rapamycin toothpaste etc.
My dentist took complete X-ray last week he said my gums looked GREAT!
I made my own rapa toothpaste and of course take it orally so I don’t know which one helped?
However I am going to make it for some family members it will be interesting to see if oral toothpaste works without internal medication.
Did the DMSO as solvent leave any upleasant odor?
How was it before rapa toothpaste and rapamycin?
I’m a person with a family history of periodontitis, both of my grandparents from my mom’s side developed periodontitis very early in life and lost almost all of their teeth before the age of 60 (they didn’t treat the disease). My dad also got periodontitis early in life and lost a lot of teeth in his 50s (also untreated).
I also got periodontitis very early in life. I think periodontitis patients and normal people differ greatly in how their mouth handles food. When I eat something that contains carbohydrates, I will immediately notice some sourness in my mouth which is caused by oral bacteria. (also a lot of sourness in my mouth when I wake up in the morning) Patients also need very frequent tooth cleaning (like once every 4 months). They develop calculus very quickly whereas healthy people don’t. (Like I can develop calculus on my teeth overnight.) Also even if calculus is removed by frequent dental cleaning, the inflammation of the gum still exists, and it never returns to normal.
Many people might think that this is caused by bad oral hygiene However I think it might be correlated but the correlation is not very high. Specifically, I’ve tried all the possible methods (electric toothbrush, mouthwash, floss, Waterpik, interdental brush, toothpaste that contain various active ingredients, etc. ). Nothing seems to work effectively on me.
This year, I accidentally cured my periodontitis by changing my diet, and (maybe by taking rapamycin). Now I finally understand what healthy gum means. No matter how lazy I am, I shouldn’t have inflammation in my gum. - even if I brush my teeth once every 3 days, I SHOULD NOT have inflammation in my gum. No matter what food I eat, even if it contains a high concentration of added sugar I should still have no problem in my mouth immediately after I consume it.
** I’m talking about “accidentally” because my initial purpose for changing my diet is not to treat or cure my periodontitis. This is also true for rapamycin. I changed my diet and took rapamycin because I am super scared of developing AD in my life.
Here is my whole history of periodontitis:
BTW, I do not have other chronic diseases like diabetes, or autoimmune diseases. I might might might have insulin resistance in my early 20s but I’ve never tested it. Other things like BMI, waist circumference are also normal
Systemic Azithromycin may be another alternative.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/adj.12177
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1834-7819.2010.01227.x
First two, Japanese and Australian, had three patients each. Patients took azithromycin 500 mg for only three consecutive days.
Third is from American dentists. Patients took AZT 500 for three consecutive days, for three consecutive weeks. The American study involved 100 patients.
Not only was the periodontal disease resolved, but the x-rays revealed bone regrowth, for all three studies.
how frequently should rapamycin be applied orally (with toothpaste/tray gel) once per week or daily?
are there any instructions for how to formulate the gel/paste?
can you use the sirolimus powder and remove it from the capsule?
is there any more economical source which is trustworthy?
I treat it the same way they treat the topical rapamycin cream for skin - I use it every time I brush my teeth, so typically 2 times a day.
But that said, this is still a research project so the optimal dosing isn’t yet determined.
Full details on how to make your own Rapamycin Toothpaste are here: DIY Rapamycin Toothpaste and Flossing Paste
Most of us just use the crushed pills, but you can easily use the rapamycin powder if you can get a good source.
Thanks. I have been taking rapamycin orally once per week for over a year and personally have seen significant oral improvements with respect to gum health, inflammation, gingivitis, etc. That has been the most notable benefit, along with reduced shoulder pain.
Now i am considering adding to my regime the toothpaste in addition to the weekly oral capsule.
I am surprised it should be applied daily in toothpaste, Can you clarify why the dosing schedule is daily when used as toothbrush but weekly or biweekly when taken orally for for longevity.
It sounds counterintuitive, since I understand the rationale for pulsing mTor and taking rapamycin once per week to avoid constantly supressing mTor. The research shows that daily is not recommended when taking rapamycin orally. Why is it different when used topically as toothpaste/skin? Is this because the absorption is reduced when applied topically or some other reason?
Update i see in the link below it’s mentioned that when using toothpaste it’s not taken up into the bloodstream. So that would explain why daily application would not be supressing mTor. But then through what mechanism does topical application have any effect on improving skin/oral health, reducing bone loss?
Its much lower dose in the topical application. Here are the details on the topical skin use of rapamycin: Rapamycin May Slow Skin Aging (Drexel U. Study)
We don’t know the optimal dosing regimen for rapamycin in any longevity / anti-aging application, so its all basically trial and error right now. See what works for you, test if possible, track results, and modify as needed.
This seems to provide a link to the anti-inflammatory benefits of rapamycin and its apparent positive improvements in periodontal disease:
Periodontal disease is a chronic inflammatory condition that results in the destruction of the teeth supporting tissues, eventually leading to the loss of teeth and reduced quality of life. In severe cases, periodontal disease can limit proper nutritional intake, cause acute pain and infection, and cause a withdrawal from social situations due to esthetic and phonetic concerns. Similar to other chronic inflammatory conditions, periodontal disease increases in prevalence with age. Research into what drives periodontal disease pathogenesis in older adults is contributing to our general understanding of age-related chronic inflammation. This review will present periodontal disease as an age-related chronic inflammatory disease and as an effective geroscience model to study mechanisms of age-related inflammatory dysregulation. The current understanding of the cellular and molecular mechanisms that drive inflammatory dysregulation as a function of age will be discussed with a focus on the major pathogenic immune cells in periodontal disease, which include neutrophils, macrophages, and T cells. Research in the aging biology field has shown that the age-related changes in these immune cells result in the cells becoming less effective in the clearance of microbial pathogens, expansion of pathogenic subpopulations, or an increase in pro-inflammatory cytokine secretions. Such changes can be pathogenic and contribute to inflammatory dysregulation that is associated with a myriad of age-related disease including periodontal disease. An improved understanding is needed to develop better interventions that target the molecules or pathways that are perturbed with age in order to improve treatment of chronic inflammatory conditions, including periodontal disease, in older adult populations.
(Paywalled paper)
Growing meta-epidemiological data implicate chronic systemic inflammation/infection due to periodontitis as an independent risk factor for aging-related diseases and mortality.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/00220345211037977?journalCode=jdrb
and
I need to make a second batch of toothpaste. My dentist and hygienist commented on how wonderful my teeth look. 5-10 years ago I used to get dark warnings about receding gums.
Nearly half of U.S. adults over 30 show signs of gum disease, which can cause tooth loss. Here’s how to recognize and treat it.
If your spit is sometimes tinged pink at least a couple of times a week after you brush or floss, it’s possible you have early-stage gum disease. But the troublesome condition can also have other surprising symptoms — or none at all.
“It’s a very, very quiet disease,” said Dr. Rodrigo Neiva, chairman of periodontics at Penn Dental Medicine.
According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, nearly half of U.S. adults over the age of 30 show signs of gum disease, and nine percent have severe gum disease, known as periodontal disease.
When left untreated, gum disease can become more difficult to remedy. “Patients may eventually end up losing their teeth,” Dr. Neiva said. And some research has connected periodontal disease with other undesirable health conditions, such as dementia, diabetes and heart disease.
…
People who rarely get cavities may be more likely than other people to get gum disease, too, Dr. Neiva said. That’s because the bacteria that cause gum disease outcompete and suppress the bacteria that cause cavities.
“It’s very common to see patients with very, very advanced periodontal disease not having a single cavity,” he said.
