Yes… from other threads: Post from Meclizine discussion here:
Here is the math:
The ITP used 800ppm in food (see attached photo). And 800ppm is 0.08%. A typical mouse weighs about 0.025kg and eats about 4g of food per day, so 0.08% is 3.2mg of Dramamine for the mouse per day. That is a dose of 3.2mg/0.025kg=128mg/kg. Divide by 12.3 to allometrically scale to humans, to get a human equivalent dose of (128mg/kg)/12.3=10.4mg/kg. So for a 70kg human, that would be 728mg of Dramamine per day.
That’s a disappointment. As I’ve said previously, I think DMF is modestly promising. Can anyone with more knowledge on the mouse literature comment on the dosing? In particular, what is the rough human equivalent to the doses they used?
I don’t think that’s meant to be taken literally as perfect translation. Something can be much more potent in humans. Different animals after all.
Does anyone know what the rapamycin dose is in mice studies equivalent to humans?
Different animals, yes — but the HED dose and allometric scaling already take account of a lot of that, and but we have at present no rational reason to suppose that humans would need less rather than more or the expected amount of asta they suggest. I note that the European Food Safety Administration found a NOAEL of 10 mg astaxanthin/kg bw per day (in rats, so do the full conversion) based on prothrombin time (bleeding) and some evidence of liver toxicity. https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2014.3757
See this handy if depressing table from our intrepid administrator:
Can we use what is deemed safe in humans afaik (0.5 mg a day or 5 mg weekly) rapamycin, and base the dose of astaxathin on it? From information of mice-safe human conversion?
(*) Nair A, Morsy MA, Jacob S. Dose translation between laboratory animals and human in preclinical and clinical phases of drug development. Drug Dev Res . 2018;79(8):373-382. doi:10.1002/ddr.21461.
(**) Nair AB, Jacob S. A simple practice guide for dose conversion between animals and human. J Basic Clin Pharm . 2016;7(2):27-31. doi:10.4103/0976-0105.177703
I’m sure baby doses of Astaxanthin have some effect. Whether that is the full effect or not is debatable. It does seem to help prevent sunburn at a 10 mg daily dose.
BTW the synthetic astaxanthin used is 3x more potent than the natural one so you have to multiply the dose by 3 if using natural astaxanthin.
The superior bioavailability of synthetic Asta beadlets compared to microalgal Asta was demonstrated in a human pharmacokinetic study (approximately threefold higher exposure in plasma over 24 h;
1:48:48 - The ITP study of 17⍺-estradiol: mechanisms of life extension and surprising sex differences
1:58:34 - Unsuccessful drugs studied by the ITP: resveratrol, metformin, and nicotinamide riboside
2:09:13 - Over-the-counter successes in the ITP: meclizine and astaxanthin
2:16:00 - A senolytic drug, fisetin, fails to extend lifespan
I usually don’t watch YouTube videos that are over 30 minutes, but this video is very informative and well worth watching in its entirety.
It was good. I was surprised at the general dismissal of Senolytics. Fisetin is out.
I wouldn’t take anything that would mess with the prostate. Meclizine is out. Benadryl is out.
I’m not pay $000’s to get grams of Astaxanthin. Maybe they figure out an affordable dose is with taking but I’m out for now. I’ll get what I get from salmon.
