Light, Water, and Melatonin: The Synergistic Regulation of Phase Separation in Dementia
https://www.crsociety.org/topic/17877-middle-of-the-night-melatonin-supplementation-better-sleep-improved-hrv-and-rhr/
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I am considering trying high-dose melatonin. Can you help me answer a few questions:
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I’ve read that some people take 50mg - 180mg per day for antioxidant and anti-aging effects. What is your experience? What dosage do you take?
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Some people suggest that a person should not take large-dose melatonin before bed or even at bedtime, but in the middle of the night or immediately upon awaking. Do you agree with this? What is the ideal time to take a large dose of melatonin?
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Since one effect seems to be better sleep, do you set an alarm to take your dosage in the middle of the night? If you sleep through the night do you skip that dose?
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I’ve read that melatonin is a fragile molecule that is easily damaged in production. I have no knowledge in this area, but what I read was suggesting that you should be very careful about your source for melatonin. What source do you use? Ahem, not interested in the suppository.
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What else would you say to someone who is considering high-dose melatonin?
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I’ve read nothing about health risks, only warnings that it might affect circadian functioning. Are there health risks that you are concerned about?
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From what I understand, high-dose melatonin helps… what? re-energize your cells’ mitochondria? Is this the primary positive effect of high dose melatonin?
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When you take a high dose of melatonin for a period of time, is there some effect on your body that you feel? What do you experience while taking high-dose melatonin?
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Is this something you plan to take for the rest of your life or does it have a re-balancing effect that allows you to stop after some period of time?
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How did you learn about the practice of taking high doses of melatonin?
Thank you!
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A lot of this may have been prompted by me. I am using my phone at the moment and intend to respond when i have a keyboard.
- I’ve read that some people take 50mg - 180mg per day for antioxidant and anti-aging effects. What is your experience? What dosage do you take?
Mine varies between 10mg and 990mg.
- Some people suggest that a person should not take large-dose melatonin before bed or even at bedtime, but in the middle of the night or immediately upon awaking. Do you agree with this? What is the ideal time to take a large dose of melatonin?
That’s my view. I think the receptors on the SCN reduce pineal production of melatonin when it hits a threshold. There is uncertainty as to the proportion of pineal melatonin that is injected directly into the CSF. Some ovine experiments imply 100%. That affects the feedback system,
- Since one effect seems to be better sleep, do you set an alarm to take your dosage in the middle of the night? If you sleep through the night do you skip that dose?
I start with issues with sleep maintenance. Hence this is not an issue, but you can take time release melatonin as long as it delays for a while.
- I’ve read that melatonin is a fragile molecule that is easily damaged in production. I have no knowledge in this area, but what I read was suggesting that you should be very careful about your source for melatonin. What source do you use? Ahem, not interested in the suppository.
I mainly use biovea’s own brand. I quite like the berry flavour.
- What else would you say to someone who is considering high-dose melatonin?
Read the research. It may be different in its impact for different people.
- I’ve read nothing about health risks, only warnings that it might affect circadian functioning. Are there health risks that you are concerned about?
The main one raised is that for male golden hamsters their testes reduced in size. I did a video about melatonin that covers some aspects of the issue.
- From what I understand, high-dose melatonin helps… what? re-energize your cells’ mitochondria? Is this the primary positive effect of high dose melatonin?
Melatonin is produced in the mitochondria from seratonin and is used as an anti-oxidant. Pineal melatonin that ends up in the serum can from there get into the mitochondria reducing oxidative stress.
?* When you take a high dose of melatonin for a period of time, is there some effect on your body that you feel? What do you experience while taking high-dose melatonin?
If I have that part of hangover that outlasts pantethine and DHM then it does calm that down.
- Is this something you plan to take for the rest of your life or does it have a re-balancing effect that allows you to stop after some period of time?
I do intend to stick with it.
- How did you learn about the practice of taking high doses of melatonin?
There is quite a bit of research. Russel Reiter has written a lot about it. He also appears in various videos talking about it.
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Melatonin seems really interesting. I am sorry it is controlled and registered as medicine and I am unable to purchase any supplement to be able to try megadose in Europe…
If you have not seen review the link below, this is another thread on this forum, with posting on this subject.
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AFAIK Melatonin is OTC in France. It can be imported for personal use in the UK,
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the problem is that it is registered as medicine as well. In most countries up to 0,44mg is considered supplement. Medicines are forbidden to import to EU. The rest is gray area, but all supplements on the market I could find are up to 5mg… if you want to take megadose that means 36 capsules per day… gets really ridiculous not to mention pricey. If someone know how to get melatonin in Europe to try megadose let me know!
In the US a few companies sell 60mg per single capsule. One of the brand names is mentioned in the Shallenberger paper.
unfortunately it would be impossible to import to EU.
That’s a shame. I got it in bulk powder in the US. I still use time released as well so I can stay asleep though.
Here is a nice interview with Dr. Reiter, a melatonin specialist at the University of Texas. Watch the first 1 minute to hear his credentials. He’s clearly a big deal in Melatonin. Show notes below.
Show Notes
-How Dr. Reiter got into melatonin research [1:23]
-What melatonin does in the body [3:28]
-How blue light inhibits melatonin production [7:05]
-How melatonin is passed to the fetus and newborn [12:00]
-The anticancer benefits of melatonin [15:25]
-How pharmaceutical drugs suppress melatonin production [18:40]
-When should melatonin be taken during the day? [22:47]
-Does taking melatonin affect natural production? [24:36]
-Older people need more melatonin [29:20]
-How melatonin can reduce the impact of Covid-19 [31:15]
-The impact of alcohol and caffeine on melatonin production [34:45]
-Melatonin acts as an antiviral [37:24]
-How sunlight helps with the production of melatonin [44:35]
-Melatonin can reduce the likelihood of metastasis [50:45]
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What is the best extended-release melatonin brand at a reasonable price?
Some notes from the video in the comment above https://youtu.be/YU9QUbsqrcQ:
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Melatonin levels are both an internal clock and an internal calendar, the latter because of the changing amount of light in different seasons.
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You should take Melatonin at the same time very night.
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Avoid blue light at night, and avoid light during the night.
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Retinas have a set of photoreceptors (not cones or rods) that affect the internal clock.
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Fire light, candle light, and moon light have no blue.
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Night lights should be red, yellow, orange.
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Melatonin helps set the biological clock of a developing fetus. Nursing children for 3-4 months and maybe as long as 5-6 months do not produce melatonin – they get it from nursing. Babies who do not nurse do not receive this melatonin. Some have speculated that SIDS could have a correlation with melatonin, but this has not been studied.
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Melatonin is one of the most powerful anti-cancer hormones and it is also an antioxidant.
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Most cancers are age-related. As you age you produce less melatonin. Melatonin suppresses tumor growth and cancer growth.
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Melatonin is part of your body’s repair and regeneration process.
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Melatonin should be more widely used because of the misuse of light.
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We could reduce some negative age-related effects on health through the use of melatonin.
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Animal studies show that cancer, neuro-degenerative diseases are inhibited by melatonin.
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People fighting cancer may want to take melatonin during the day as well as night, because it leaves the body quickly.
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Melatonin can also help sepsis.
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Does taking Melatonin reduce your body’s ability to produce Melatonin? Melatonin in the body is produced in the pineal glad. This Melatonin is controlled by the nervous system and not by endocrine feedback. Therefore, there is no evidence of this.
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Blind people have lower rates of certain cancers. This could have to do with their high levels of melatonin.
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Melatonin levels drop as we age. If you take 75 year olds and separate them by health level, those who are more healthy have more melatonin. Could be one way or the other, but there is the correlation.
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How much do you take at night? Started with 3-5 mg as a young person. To defer aging, a 45 year old person might take 10mg. But others more. He is reluctant to say how much he takes because he doesn’t want to make a recommendation. But he does take 100mg nightly “for a very specific reason.” It is also very anti-viral. He wants to impede the likelihood that he’ll get COVID. If not for COVID he would be taking less. Probably 30-50mg/night as an 85 year old.
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Six clinical trials on Melatonin and COVID were currently being conducted when the video was made. They have all shown it helps: reduce either the severity of the infection, duration of hospitalization, necessity for tracheal intubation, decreased mortality.
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Melatonin is cheaper than aspirin.
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Older people have lower melatonin. They also tend to take more prescription medications. Some of these reduce melatonin levels.
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Does alcohol affect melatonin? Yes, particular if late in the day or evening. Also coffee.
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Women are delaying child-bearing. This leads to some negative effects in the children. Melatonin seems to help protect against this. Women in late reproductive periods should take melatonin, also helps preserve the reproductive system.
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There is very little evidence that it ever has negative effects.
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Melatonin is an anti-viral generally, even against the common cold. Zika, Ebola. Up-regulates the immune system.
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Ebola: WHO says any reasonable treatment should be used to help if it helps. Melatonin can help.
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Blue-blocker glasses: are these helpful? One or two studies say maybe. Often they’re not wrap-around. If you’re going to wear them they should be like goggles. Avoid blue light in the the evening by any means. But they are so-so as a help.
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Astronauts change the wavelengths of the light on the space stations. Light is a drug that impacts our physiology.
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Oxidative stress is a great pressure on the body.
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Infrared light from the sun has an effect on melatonin in the body. This has high permeability. It impacts cells directly.
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Melatonin is produced in the pineal gland. It is also produced in the body, in cells, but it is never released into the blood.
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Infrared light has impacts on melatonin synthesis in the cells.
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Sunlight changes during the day: In the early morning hours we’re getting mostly infrared. Later UV. In late afternoon back to infra-red. The infrared actually helps repair skin damage, so morning and evening sun help the skin to repair what is caused by the midday UV.
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So melatonin is also produced during the day – not in the blood but in the cell.
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Cancer cells produce less melatonin than normal cells. Warberger Effect. They are deficient in the way of protecting themselves with melatonin.
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Melatonin reduces the effect of metastasis. It has actions that suggest it would be anti-metastatic.
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Melatonin is absorbed from the blood by the cell and by the mitochondria. Supplemental melatonin encourages in-cell production of melatonin.
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Can infrared light from devices also encourage the body to produce melatonin? Probably, it is the light that does it.
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The evidence regrind stroke and heart attack – those cells don’t regenerate or don’t do it very well. Aspirin is often chewed to get it in the blood quickly. This doctor would immediately load up on melatonin if he had a heart attack. What dose? 100mg perhaps several times over that next 24 hours. Not a recommendation.
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Melatonin is not magical. It is just a good wholesome molecule that evolved to help cells operate at a maximum level. Benefits greatly outweigh the risks.
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Some say 120-150mg a day. Is that too much? Different cancers, comorbidities may suggest different amounts. But…
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You can’t overdose on melatonin.
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The optimal dose is hard to decide upon. The double-blind studies have not been done. But don’t be afraid of taking too much.
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Are there any side effects that might suggest an overdose? Sleepy? Dizzy? This is hard to quantify. There could be some unique metabolic issues for some people in some times where Melatonin might not be recommended.
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This has been discussed months ago
Reiter takes 180mg per day, review Shallenberger paper/discussion.
Shallenberger’s slides and paper have been posted more than one time on this forum
And a link to a PDF copy of Reiter’s medical book {NOT his consumer book] has been posted.
Yes, I see the thread is quite long. Do you disapprove of me sharing more information on the subject? I thought these details might be helpful for some people.
Also, Shallenberger’s paper and slides explicitly recommend a particular brand of melatonin from a specific company. That made me hesitant to trust his recommendation. Dr. Reiter does not make any such recommendation, so I trust his conclusions more.
As it happens, they do align! All the better.
Mentions the brand he uses That is NOT the only brand that is 60mg per capsules size. There are other brands mfg/sold in 60mg capsules
FWIW
I personally know Frank since the early 80’s. I was the person that organized the first German Medical Ozone Training Course (done in English) in Heidelberg.
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The persuasion is really strong that high dose melatonin is snake oil.
If I wanted to make money by selling snake oil, I would do what he does.
(i.e see all his statements like “prevent cardiovascular disease”), there’s a reason why that’s not allowed, if it’s not true, it’s fraud and he’s lucky he is not on the radar of the FDA.