Low-Dose B-Complex or Multivitamin as an Insurance Policy

#1

Has anyone been able to find a high-quality, but low dose b complex or multivitamin?

I like that brands like Thorne, Pure Encapsulations, and Jarrow use high quality ingredients (e.g., methylated B vitamins, folate instead of folic acid, P5P as B6, etc), but their dosages are incredibly high.

E.g., here is Thorne’s “Basic B Complex”:

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Ideally, I’s like to get 100%+ RDA on most vitamins as an insurance policy, but not more than 2x or 3x on any single vitamin.

One option could be to take something like 1/4 of a cap (get rid of extra powder) once a week, but then some vitamins would be below 100% and B12 would still be high 16700/7/4 = ~600% RDA on average per day. Not to mention, that one time dose in this case would also be ~4000% RDA (16700/4).

I know these vitamins are not toxic and generally considered safe, but I don’t think we have enough date to confidently say that long-term use of such high doses that would be impossible to obtain from food is beneficial or even perfectly safe for everyone. My previous lab work also indicated very high levels of B6 and B12 even with modest supplementation. Folate, on the other hand, is the opposite, so that’s the only B vitamin I supplement individually in a moderately high dose.

Why bother with a b-complex / multivit at all?

It seems like some specific B vitamins might actually be tricky to get from food consistently, so it’d be nice to have an insurance policy. E.g., see amounts in food for these two:

and

Pure Encapsulation One gets closer to meeting the requirements (Rhonda Patrick uses it AFAIK) as it has lower dosages, but it has a bunch of antioxidants / ingredients that I don’t want/need. E.g., CoQ10 and ALA.

Are there other good options that I’m missing?

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#2

I use a Thorne methylated b supplement that says to take 2 capsules 2x per day. I just take 1 capsule.

#3

I have a teaspoon of nutritional yeast every day for my B vitamin insurance policy

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#4

Which one?

Here are some of their B vitamin options (all super high in B12 and some other vitamins)

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#5

You ask: “Why bother with a b-complex / multivit at all?”

Back around 2008 I was working in Massachusetts and so got a new PCP. It seems that homocysteine (hcy) was a “pet,” test for her w/ males that were + for metabolic syndrome, which was me, ^BP, obese, etc. Additionally, my tongue had marked fissuring (“cracked tongue.).

She recommended a B supplement, especially folic acid. Since then I have taken Bronson Super B 100 + a 800 microgram tablet of folic acid. So, that’s about 1mg (1,000 mcg folic acid) per day.

The next blood test showed a homocysteine level that was well below the normal range. It dropped from the forties to ten. Over the years my tongue lost that central furrowing and now is smooth.

Interestingly, consumerlab.com states: “…large doses of certain B vitamins can cause serious toxicity, as summarized below. The same is true of vitamin C, the other water soluble vitamin.”

In their summary they note B-3 (Niacin) “skin-flushing; liver toxicity; elevated blood sugar.”

Well, that’s half a load of crap and half-true. For more than a decade I took 1.5gram Niacin to extraordinarily good effect of my lipid profile, a vast improvement. The “skin-flushing” in my book is not a toxicity, but simply part of the way it works and that can easily be negated with 86mg aspirin 30 minutes before taking the Niacin along w/ ramping up dosage.
The “liver toxicity,” did not result from instant release niacin, although it did from certain slow-release versions:

“The timed-release tablets and capsules may have fewer side effects than regular niacin. However, the timed-release versions are more likely to cause liver damage. Regardless of which form of niacin you are using, doctors recommend periodic liver function tests when using high doses (above 100 mg per day) of niacin.” Note: at 1.5 grams per day for well over a decade, I never had any liver enzyme issues.

While homocysteine is a normal part of our metabolism, “The aberrantly altered level of homocysteine (commonly hyperhomocysteinemia) triggers various pathological symptoms and subsequently the Hcy-related diseases. Increased plasma homocysteine concentrations could lead to hyperhomocysteinemia which is a risk factor for several pathologies such as cardiovascular diseases (CVD), and is also related to early atherosclerosis symptoms and venous thrombosis. Further, the elevated level of homocysteine is associated with other pathologies like autoimmune responses (diabetes I and diabetes II), neural development (neural tube defects), neurodegenerative diseases, and reproductive health as male and female infertility. Homocysteine and Folic Acid Metabolism | SpringerLink

I do agree that should you have a normal homocysteine level and are absent any signs of b deficiencies that high doses of B-vitamins are not for you.

#6

@justaguest I use the methyl guard ($40). Not the “plus”. I just rechecked the label. It say 3 capsules 2x per day. I take 1 capsule.

#7

I take PureEncapsulation “Longevity Nutrients”, but I’m in the age group (old) shown to benefit from a multivitamin.

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#8

So that would be 125/3 = 41,667% RDA of B12 and 6923/3 = 2,307% RDA of riboflavin. :slight_smile:

It also misses some B vitamins. If it works for you, perfectly fine of course. I’m just trying to find one that would be closer to 100% to 300% RDA on all.

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#9

Yeah, this one also has very “uneven” RDAs percentages and extra stuff I personally wouldn’t want (ALA and Q10 for example).

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#10

Agreed. Hard to find the perfect multi. I don’t put much importance on RDA’s.

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#11

Sounds scary but the RDA is 2.4 mcg. (1000mcg = 1mg). You could just open the capsule and snort 1 grain of powder each day. One capsule would last you about 1 year.

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#12

This is the B-complex I use. I copied it from Bryan Johnson. I take one tablet once a week on a Monday. The values listed below are for 2 tablets.

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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084HH913J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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#13

Joseph, lol! :joy:

But I still want other vitamins in normal amounts too, not just B12.

BTW, very few foods have B12 amounts higher than 100% per serving (which makes me think that we may or may not have evolved to process such amounts):

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#14

B6 is easy to oversupplement as the inactive form self inhibits. Sadly lots of other supplements add b6. I managed to over supplement with 100mg a day. It takes a short while maybe a few weeks to build up.

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#15

Maybe this could be useful for you.
I don’t know about the quality of the ingredients, I’ve never used it.

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#16

What’s the name of this one? Thanks!

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#17

Sorry, I forgot the link!

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#18

That’s Dr. Stanfield’s MV. Based on what I know, it’s a good one. I’ve considered it as well.

#19

Methylated B vitamins are very important for people who have SNPs that prevent them converting the standard forms of vitamin B supplements to the methylated versions that our body needs. My sweetheart and her sisters have SNPs related to methylated B12. I do not.

23andMe reports C677T and A1298C snps that are both related to B vitamins and methylation. They interact with each other.

The methylation project was long enough ago that I don’t remember what the combination of SNPs was but when we her on 1 mcg of methylated B12, her nervous woke up. Two of her sister’s benefited from smaller doses and the fourth didn’t have any of the kind of health problems she wanted to go to any trouble to change.

I like an awake brain so I tried 1mcg methylated B12 too. It was wonderful for an hour or two and then I got overwhelmingly anxious.

Anxiety is not a normal condition for me. If you do not experience anxiety and you’re interested in learning more about it, you can take big doses of methylated B12 and you might discover what it’s like. Or you might not, it’s very complicated.

If you do get over methylated, you can take niacin, the kind of flushes.

I take ordinary cheap B vitamins because I can convert them to the active substance. I don’t do well when I take the methylated forms.

There is a lot to learn about methylation. For most of us, it doesn’t make much difference but it can make a huge difference, either positive or negative, for some of us

There are many articles on over and undermethylation related to polymorphisms. Some recent ones go into a lot of detail.

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#20

I recently went to a new primary care doctor who only sees geriatric patients because my old primary provider retired. *(As an aside: When you are as old as me most of your primary providers have either retired or they have died).

Anyways, he ordered a B12 & Folate test as part of my now tri-annual checkups. This is the first time a doctor has prescribed a B12, folate test.

I take no supplements containing B12 or folate.

I wasn’t surprised by my B12 levels because I eat meat and dairy products. I was surprised by folate levels because I only eat a few leafy greens or other food sources containing folate.

In any case, if you can’t afford or don’t want to take a comprehensive vitamin test you can just take the B12, folate test.

At Ulta Lab Tests: Vitamin B12 (Cobalamin) and Folate Panel $38

Vitamins & Minerals - Comprehensive $992.95

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