I posted this on another thread
“Time is our most valuable asset, yet we tend to waste it, kill it and spend it rather than invest it.”
~ Jim Rohn
4 Likes
Great quotes!
The majority of us here are not the waiting type.
I agree that we are not the waiting type but we could accomplish so much more if we start working as a team in trying to move trials and research forward.
2 Likes
@Krister_Kauppi - Question of interest would be if we have a way or potential way of measuring mTOR activity. This may help clear up dosing end points rather than drug levels. Also a follow up question on actionable models such as trying to mimic youthful mTOR modulation vs. optimizing in another way such as short acting inhibitors at supra physiologic levels.
Thank you!
2 Likes
What do you really think this would accomplish?
@Krister_Kauppi Thanks for asking. Regardless of your guest, I am interested in any way to measure yes/no and magnitude of effect of turning down mTOR (but not too much) and turning up autophagy (but not too much). Since we don’t have a good biological aging calculator yet, is there a smart way to estimate progress along the 9-12 hallmarks of aging in aggregate using, perhaps, chronic inflammation as a key indicator of improving immune function, turning down SASP, and engaging autophagy/mitophagy for cleaning up old, poorly functioning organelles? If inflammation is a good marker, how to best measure it? I’ve heard CRP is not a good measure.
From recent paper, link included here:
“Indicators of inflammaging, including elevations in cytokines IL-6, CRP, and TNF-a, are associated with all-cause mortality, as well as with a number of age- related chronic diseases, including cardiovascular dis- ease, diabetes mellitus, cancer, frailty, and sarcopenia.”
3 Likes
There is a way to measure mTOR systemically.
Review;
1 Like
There are a lot of potential todos in the Rapamycin field which we can work together to move it forward in a better way.
Here are for example some
-
Setting up a Rapamycin fund in which we gather money to invest in different Rapamycin trials and research studies. We could also finance custom ITP:s. It costs around 450 000 dollars per intervention that we want to test.
-
Setting up our own rapamycin trials
-
We should consolidate all our data on rapamycin in a good way. Now the data is everywhere and it’s very hard to make comparisons between groups or people.
-
Create a good standard test kit. Pre rapamycin and during taking rapamycin. Helps also with comparison between people if we have a standardized way of doing this journey.
-
Setting up group self experiments. For example during a period a group tries to combine rapamycin with a specific intervention. Which is evaluated if it has synergistic, additive or detrimental effects.
-
Setting up a team around the Rapamycin podcast and improving it even more. There are lots of todos here
-
Start a world wide rapamycin longevity clinic.
There are lots of more potential todos. Together we can accomplish so much more if we start collaborating and doing things together.
7 Likes
Thank you! Next step would be to determine optimal levels and modulation.
Just side note regarding that rapamycin seems to work better in elderly than fasting is something Mikail Blagosklonny points out in one of his papers.
“Notably, rapamycin more potently inhibits mTOR than does fasting, especially in old age”
Source: Fasting and rapamycin: diabetes versus benevolent glucose intolerance - PubMed
He refers to three papers regarding this.
5 Likes
I’m very happy to see a discussion about this podcast. I listened to this episode and I found it so frustrating to see how much the need for patents is slowing down progress into this field.
It also seems that whatever is available won’t be available for aging straight away but rather “typical illnesses” which I just find frustrating!
I am sure when / if the new mTOR inhibitors are made available for a specific disease indications, that there will be doctors that will be willing to prescribe it off-label, just as rapamycin is. So it will be available. The bigger issue is how many people can afford the $10,000 to $20,000 per month that the medicine will likely cost if you are paying out of pocket for it.
3 Likes
Reality, not many if any.
Members on this forum purchase overseas as the cost for generic rapamycin out of pocket is too high, a few dollars {less than a hundred]
How many on here would spend $4,000 a month out of pocket if it where available?
I think nobody on this forum.
Problem I have with this for profit model is that safety and efficacy is not the primary objective… money is… I think the incentive is in the wrong place. How can we trust that they are not gaming the system to get a defective drug approve because of… well… money…
Would not be the first time it happens… The entire research infrastructure is corrupt… my level of trust is low…
This is perhaps one of the key dilemmas in health research. Private investors will only invest if they think they might get more money back. However, governments are spectacularly bad at investing and it is best that don’t have a monopoly on investment. Where the balance lies is another issue.
When it comes to longevity private investors will invest if they think they personally may benefit. That is a helpful thing because it does create a limited amount of progress.
However, an underlying problem is the tendency (by the state or private investors) to fund research that they think has a good chance of coming up with a positive result. Hence the tendency to fund fads such as cellular reprogramming with the Yamanaka factors.
I am personally lucky in that like Bryan Johnson (but not to the same extent) I can invest in my own research where things like weekly blood tests have a material cost.
Oddly enough, like Bryan Johnson, I think I am making some progress, but only time will tell.
2 Likes
A honest company such as “Pfizer”
Justice Department Announces Largest Health Care Fraud Settlement in Its History
Wednesday, September 2, 2009
Pfizer to Pay $2.3 Billion for Fraudulent Marketing
And they still made profit in 2009 after paying $2.3 billion.
Group orders of a synthesis and lab testing. In a Cyberpunk world where they would cost that much, most of us would have to go underground/black market for it.
Sounds interesting in theory, but has this ever actually been done? There are many expensive drugs out there, and many motivate sick people, but have you ever seen people actually doing a work-around like this to get access to a new drug? If it possible, you’d think someone have done it, and something would have been written about about it.
There has been plenty of group buys on Longecity, I’ve seen them over the years there. It’s all on the forum. A bunch of people get together and get a price quote from a chemist, buy the synthesis for ‘research purposes’, and then one person gets the order and ships it to everyone who bought shares.
These seem to be just for molecules / chemicals that are in early research and testing. Any examples with patented, newly discovered molecules that are commercial drugs, and people getting around the patent using this approach?
People there aren’t so patient. I don’t know about the case you’re mentioning, but if there ever is an interesting commercial drug I’d chip in to try a synthesis if others would be so as well. There’s probably a bunch of things that has to be researched and thought about. Longecity looks pretty dead though now and filled with spam.