Link here
https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(25)00041-2
Thorough analysis by GetHealthspan
Link here
https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(25)00041-2
Thorough analysis by GetHealthspan
Yep, itās calcium handling. For years now, Iāve been paying attention to calcium handling just because it keeps turning up as the critical pathway in aging and cell degeneration, especially in the context of NDDs.
Incidentally, wrt. muscle, this is where statins are a negative. Much as I love statins, the evidence is quite clear. Statins are not friendly to muscle tissue, and again, they affect calcium handling - not all statins equally, but all do to some extent. I think the trade off is still worth it, but the effect is there. YMMV.
How do you track calcium handling?
When you have time, feel free to share any posts or papers you have on that, this is not something Iāve been paying attention to.
Well, there are tons of papers on PubMed, Iāve posted many a couple of years ago in the big Parkinsonās thread here and some other threads.
Calcium handling is specific to a given cell and tissue, so you canāt really measure it yourself, this is all molecular level investigations.
This is a useful study and a cautionary note even though I disagree with this generalization it attempts to make.
I have been exercising in a dedicated, serious way since I was a teenager. I have always lifted weights and for several decades I ran competitively. In my 60s and 70s, my non exercising days were filled with felling trees, cutting rounds, and splitting and stacking logs in the summer months and shoveling snow in the winter months. To this day, I generally hike steep hills once every week or two. Throughout these decades I have eaten well and taken supplements, many of which quench free radicals, even based on now decadeās old nutritional data. In fact, the only substantive dietary changes I have made in the past two decades are eliminating alcohol from my diet, significantly reducing my sugar intake, and rounding my diet to contemporary Mediterranean standards.
Nonetheless, now in my ninth decade of life, I am observing substantial and accelerating decline in mitochondrial energy production, especially in my lower body. Iām sure the decline has been playing out for decades before that but the observational knee of the curve occurred in my late 60s and the rate of change continues to accelerate despite my best efforts. This is not a complaint or even a lament. Iām grateful that I can still do almost everything physical that I was able to do as a young man. It is, however, a challenge to any claim that most of the decline I note in myself or my friends and family is associated to inactivity. When I get time, Iāll unpack this study to examine its flaws, which are surely there. Perhaps they lie only in the way of excessive claims.
Mystery solved. I donāt disagree with the claims made in the original research article. In fact, they offer findings that directly support the claims I made above when they say, ā. . . mitochondrial calcium retention capacity decreases with aging regardless of physical activity and correlates with muscle mass, performance, and the stress-responsive metabokine/mitokine growth differentiation factor 15 (GDF15).ā The errors appear to be limited to the Healthspan article that attempted to summarize the research.
I sympathize with your frustration. However, I come at the same frustration from the other side. The endless nattering about the importance of exercise as if itās a cureall obscures the cold hard fact that decline, aging and death are not nearly as malleable as the exercise propagandists would have you believe. The consequence of this propaganda (ahem, Peter Attia) is that we are not focusing on the real problem, which is the aging decline itself on a systemic level. āGo exerciseā is the equivalent of ātake two aspirin and be on your wayā while cancer is ravaging your body.
You describe a life full of exercise. Fantastic - because you enjoy it - I genuinely am happy for you⦠find happiness wherever you can, itās all good! I am the opposite. I resent it - your description of lifelong exercise reads like a horror story to me. I exercise only because I must - thereās a gun to my head. I would much prefer not to have that gun aimed at me. I would much rather spend that time in a concert hall, museum, national park, or having a quiet joyful conversation with friends. To me time spent in a dank gym is time spent in a torture chamber. No thanks.
The truth is: if healthspan and lifespan are your only goal, you can get away with much, much less exercise than is commonly pushed (ahem, Peter Attia) by those for whom exercise is a passion. If you want to achieve feats of lifting, running and record setting, or just really love exercise - by all means, exercise to your heartās content (careful with that heart though with extreme endurance!). For the rest of us: do just enough, and donāt worry about perfection - it will buy you nothing you either want or actually need. Make sure youāre active enough so that your ADL are fully under your own power - it doesnāt take much at all; donāt feel guilty and donāt feel like you have to keep up with that fellow who spends all his free time in the basement displacing weights.
All that exercising and down we go right on schedule. As I lay dying, I strongly doubt that what Iāll regret most is that I didnāt spend more time at the office or at the gym. If I would have a regret it would be that I didnāt spend more time exploring the cultural fruits of human civilization, that greatest expression of Life in our cold universe. YMMV.
Looking at the graphs:
Seems contradictory, but you could just say that exercise just builds a bigger buffer of mCRC capacity, without fixing the age-related drop in mitochondrial calcium retention capacity.
I support my friends to choose to live on any part of the physical and weight bearing activity returns curve that suits them. Those for whom the thought of a gym conjures the noun ādankā (what kind of gym did you visit ā my gym is bright, state of the art HVAC, and full of life from toddlers to nonagenarian) can make a rational choice to enjoy life on the early part of that curve. One claim they cannot make ā and this is where Attia is unarguably correct ā is that they will be able to engage in the same physical activities in their last decade of life that they were able to do in previous decades: hoist a grandchild with one arm and swing them in the air, play catch or tag football, take hikes with the kids and grandkids, or especially important to me, push their airplane back in the hanger by hand when most of the 60-year-old ākidsā have already purchased electric tugs.
I have good friends who choose to enjoy life on the minimalist side of the curve. To a person, they say they can do everything they could when they were younger but it is sadly painful to the rest of us that they are deceiving themselves. We slow for them in ways we hope they will not notice and become self-conscious, we let them āpushā or āliftā with us, pretending that they are helping. In truth, every one of my minimalist friends in his or her 80ās is feeble by objective standards, this in spite of their claims to the contrary, which seem grow in proportion to their loss of function. What they can manage is a daily walk, albeit not too fast. The net metabolic logic is inescapable: those who do not live on the mid to upper part of the physical performance curves will lose capacity sooner than those who do and, at some point, the margin will become obvious.
Finally, I see the exercise v. anything comparisons as false logic. There is no doubt that my time spent exercising returns 1-2x in productive time ā a net gain in non-exercise mental energy.
This means that makes the case that there is no need to take the following popular antioxidant:
Very surprising to me. So now Iām wondering if those mitochondrial transplant therapies are just a waste of time for age-related muscle loss
Maybe. What I find intriguing is the individual variability. Anecdote time. Back in my early 20ās I did zero exercise of any kind - I didnāt start exercising regularly until I reached mid to late 20ās. However, I of course had plenty of friends who were exercise buffs lifting and running and all that good stuff. Yet, in unscheduled challenges of the very kind you describe (equivalent to pushing the airplane etc.), it was almost a rule, that I could perform such feats at a superior level to my friends - although not things like endurance. Just explosive power, grip strength and the like. At the time this was simply put down to a quirk in the universe of some kind that went against conventional wisdom.
Today, I think science has given us a gread deal more context. Muscle size is not strictly correlated with strength. And even performance is not driven by strength in turn. It transpires that what is just if not more important is the nerve activation starting with the CNS and down the line to the muscle tissue. Some people naturally retain performance despite minimal training - whilst others must buy their performance through extensive training. I think itās luck of the draw.
There was an interesting discussion back in the day about grip strength. I always had an iron grip, even back when I did no exercise whatsoever. I could do a hang for longer than many of my friends who specifically trained for it. The correlation between grip strength and health/longevity naturally led to the question of ātrained vs untrainedā being a marker - and it fell on it being a legitimate marker if you had an untrained grip strength. Merely training your grip is of some help (insofar as it allows you to lift weights better), but it doesnāt affect the underlying capacity - itās like measuring someoneās height marking it off on a chart and then when transfering you add 10 inches - you changed the marker, but not the actual height.
Speed of reflexes, balance, proprioperception - these are not something you can readily train for, while being critical in ADL long term in the very old. You can of course train for specific situations, like balancing on a beam, but it wonāt necessarily translate to better sense of balance overall, just better specific application adaptation to balancing on a beam.
People are different. Just as there are hard gainers in a gym (I happen to be a remarkably easy gainer), people have different natural reserves in muscle performance just as with all other aspects of aging, whether trained or not. And thatās how you get the non-exercising 100 year old merrily ambling about while the master athlete croaking at 86.
Some people need exercise more than others. And we should always attempt individualized medicine. You may need more exercise. Or less. Thereās a very interesting study - posted somewhere on this site - where those who had naturally very high VO2Max capacity genetically also had more health problems unless they exercised a lot. Interesting variable - reflected in those rat experiments where rats that were bred to naturally have high performance and exercise levels lived shorter lives than their more sedentary cousins (Dr. Greger did a yt video about that when discussing exercise, I posted it on this site).
So, to sum up - I wouldnāt make blanket statements about the necessity of exercise one way or another. Itās fine as far as it goes, but pay attention to the individual vs the population, because ultimately all of us are individuals. We place our chips and spin the wheel. YMMV.
On your points of individual differences, I agree and even if I did not, the evidence is plentiful. There is however a debate to be had on the borderline between outliers and individual differences. For a few years in my 30s, my training schedule as a runner was identical to Frank Shorterās. I had won a state contest and was therefore permitted to run in the regionals in Denver where Frank Shorter was the celebrity runner. I was delighted. He and I spoke a bit as we were both at the head of a group of ~1,200 runners. When the gun fired, it was perhaps 45 seconds before Frank was so far ahead of me that I could no longer make out his number. He was an outlier. I was a well trained average Joe. Genes matter and they are largely responsible for the variance that we view as exceptional and outliers, ceteris paribus. Science can be informed by these outliers but generalizations cannot reliably flow from them.
So, yes, you as a low exerciser may be stronger for your age than someone who is a high exerciser but having lived my life in gyms and on the tracks, I can tell you that it will be a significant exception. In a crowd of 30 or 300 mid-level exercisers, you will show up as the low exerciser you are.
A final point on this and with complete respect as I note your age as I see it on your profile. I generally tell people in their 60s or early 70s that they ā like Attia does frequently ā lack the understanding necessary to appreciate some of these issues. At age 70, I was still feeling robust and invincible. By 75, I had become aware of some of the issues I am sharing. Looking back, my appraisal of the situation ā for me and for my similarly aged friends ā could not have been much more wrong. This is why I generally chuckle (or grimace) when a 40-year-old podcaster offers to tell me how to exercise. My 97 year old father-in-law was telling me that after his physical, he asked his physicians if he should be doing anything differently. One of them laughed and told him it would be the height of arrogance for him ā a 50 year old doc) to make any suggestions about how to eat, sleep, or exercise.
So will we gym and track rats live longer? I have no idea. I can conjecture that we might if the salient threat rests on strength and agility. I can also conjecture that a severe exercise injury could sideline us and lead to a death spiral.
I take you at your word. Itās entirely possible that I will suddenly in my more advanced years (75+) feel weak and perform poorly with my ADL.
Of course, itās hard to reconcile with plentiful examples of non-exercisers in very good shape in their 90ās and beyond. Just as you look at people around you, so do I. I know of several people in the Mel Brooks phenotype bucket - terrible diet, zero exercise, terrible sleeping habits, but spry and sharp as all get out in their 90ās (now 100+). OK, we donāt need to look at the total outliers rare as henās teeth - thatās not a sensible expectation. Iām talking about āordinaryā folks - really itās not that rare, the average diet, active but not formal exerciser - 80ās and 90ās.
But hereās the tradeoff from my perspective. I see time as the most precious commodity at my age. I would rather prioritize my current time and proportionally discount time in my 80ās and 90ās or more (assuming I even reach that). If a concert I want to go to or exhibition comes up and so happens it requires my skipping exercise, I do so happily. I want to experience life with my mind less affected by age now - it will always be a decline. From a QOL point of view, a year NOW will always be better than a year in my 90ās. So I will gladly trade time now (including taking time away from exercise) for a slightly greater decline later. Not to mention the uncertainty that Iāll even be around later to enjoy life - accidents happen. Iām not saving for my 150āth birthday, Iām spending it now - to use a cliche, a ride in a sports covertible at 69 is more fun than at 89, especially if you happen to croak at 85. Itās all a gamble and we all calculate the odds differently. To each their own. Good discussion!
I can see the logic in this but, by whatever mechanism, CoQ10 increases the energy I bring to strenuous exercise. Since I have made no systematic observations, it is possible that my judgment is misattributed. Iām going to observe more closely.
There could be an argument for taking coq10 if on a statin, although clinical outcomes for physical performance in general are neutral. Iām tempted to look at my levels next time I test, although results would only tell me about circulating levels in the blood, not intracellular levels.
I thought I would ask Claude for the relationship between calcium and the membrane potential:
Mitochondrial calcium handling and membrane potential (ĪĪØm) are locked in a tight, bidirectional relationship ā each drives the other, and together they form a control loop thatās central to both energy production and cell death.
The starting point is that mitochondria are a major calcium sink for the cell. The mitochondrial calcium uniporter (MCU complex) sits on the inner membrane and lets Ca²⺠flow into the matrix. This isnāt active transport ā itās driven purely by the electrochemical gradient the electron transport chain builds up. The matrix sits around -150 to -180 mV relative to the cytosol, so the positively charged Ca²⺠ion is pulled in electrophoretically. That means uniporter-mediated uptake is entirely dependent on ĪĪØm being maintained: a healthy, polarized membrane gives mitochondria strong calcium-buffering capacity, while a depolarized one loses it (and can even reverse, releasing calcium back into the cytosol via the Naāŗ/Ca²⺠exchanger, NCLX).
The relationship runs the other way too. Every Ca²⺠ion that enters the matrix carries positive charge in, which consumes a bit of the membrane potential ā a transient, small depolarization. The electron transport chain compensates by pumping protons harder, which is exactly why calcium entry also stimulates respiration: matrix Ca²⺠directly activates three key dehydrogenases (pyruvate dehydrogenase, isocitrate dehydrogenase, and α-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase), accelerating the TCA cycle, boosting NADH supply to the ETC, and increasing proton pumping. So under normal physiological conditions, calcium acts as a feed-forward signal that matches ATP output to demand ā a rise in cytosolic Ca²⺠(say, during muscle contraction or neuronal firing) tells mitochondria to work harder, and ĪĪØm is largely maintained or even slightly reinforced.
The dangerous part of the relationship shows up under calcium overload. If matrix Ca²⺠rises too high ā especially alongside oxidative stress, depleted adenine nucleotides, or elevated phosphate ā it triggers opening of the mitochondrial permeability transition pore (mPTP), a large nonselective channel in the inner membrane. Once that opens, the membrane becomes freely permeable, ĪĪØm collapses essentially instantly, ATP synthesis stops (the F1F0-ATPase can even run in reverse, burning ATP trying to restore the gradient), the matrix swells, and pro-apoptotic factors like cytochrome c leak out. This is the core mechanism behind excitotoxic neuronal death and ischemia-reperfusion injury, and it creates a vicious cycle: depolarization impairs the cellās ATP-dependent calcium pumps (like plasma membrane and SERCA Ca²āŗ-ATPases), which lets cytosolic calcium climb further, which drives more mitochondrial calcium loading and more mPTP opening.
Given the aging angle youāve been working on with GFH, this loop is often cited as a hallmark of mitochondrial decline generally: aged mitochondria tend to run a lower resting ĪĪØm and have a lower threshold for mPTP opening, so they buffer calcium less effectively and are more prone to tipping from the āhealthy signalingā regime into the āoverload and collapseā regime ā which in turn increases ROS output (calcium-stimulated dehydrogenase activity and ETC dysfunction both contribute) and accelerates further mitochondrial and mtDNA damage.
Improved Calcium Homeostasis and Force by Selenium Treatment and Training in Aged Mouse Skeletal Muscle:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-58500-x
AI summary
AI synthesis of both papers, which seems to make a good case for selenium supplmentation. Selenium attacks the issue from another starting point.
Another good opttion for Ca^2+ homeostatis is Urolitihin A, which works by triggering mitophagy. This in turn helps make better mitochondria that have a higher calcium buffer.
Years of research on APOE4 genes say that genotype responds better to exercise than any other measure. I think people are different in many, many ways and there is not one answer for anyone. We have to get to know our bodies and our challenges and look at our family history and lab work to increase the accuracy of our guessing game and do our very best and the rest is for God to decide.
I have used all of these and PQQ made a noticeable difference in my energy. Nothing with the others. I took ALA for years hoping my hearing would be spared but itās heading southā¦