I'm Taking TESTOSTERONE: My Story, Mistakes & Insights From a Longevity Perspective

O3:

Below are three parts: (1) a succinct executive summary, (2) a critique (methods, logic, evidence, blind spots, practical suggestions), and (3) a tidied, lightly condensed transcript grouped by topic and timestamp.
(I’ve preserved the key numbers, decisions, and side‑effects; filler and repetition have been trimmed.)


1) Executive summary (what he did, what happened, what he learned)

  • Who / what: Matt (host, 50s) describes his path to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) after years of symptoms (low energy/libido, poorer workout returns, body‑comp drift) and “normal” total T but high SHBG and low free T. Kevin (clinician) comments throughout.

  • Diagnosis pivot: His PCP only checked total testosterone and dismissed him. Independent labs later showed elevated SHBG + low free T + high LH/FSH → primary hypogonadism.

  • Tried lifestyle first: Cleaned diet, cut alcohol, trained, slept better, tried supplements (e.g., boron—no effect; DHEA—brief 3‑day symptomatic bump). Net: didn’t move SHBG/free T enough.

  • Main fear set before starting TRT:

    • Point of no return” for endogenous T production / fertility.
    • Hair loss, personality change/‘roid rage’, stigma, and daily injections.
  • Initial mistake: chose oral testosterone undecanoate (Jatenzo) to avoid needles → got oily skin, acne, pronounced water retention/edema; levels adequate but side‑effects intolerable; stopped after ~3 months.

  • Current protocol (≈9 months so far): Injectable testosterone cypionate in grapeseed oil + very low‑dose anastrozole, 0.3 mL twice weekly of a 200 mg/mL preparation (~120 mg/week total). Side‑effects largely resolved on injectables.

  • Benefits he reports (clear, salient): higher energy, libido, mood, much better body‑comp response to resistance training. He also notes greater appetite and ~20 lb total weight gain (DEXA: ~10 lb lean, ~8.5 lb fat). Sleep unchanged, no RBC/Hct rise, no obvious prostate issues.

  • Lipids/metabolic: HDL dropped notably; LDL and insulin sensitivity didn’t budge.

  • Monitoring targets Kevin uses: total T ~700–1000 ng/dL, free T ~130–200 pg/mL, track E2, DHT, LH/FSH, SHBG, CBC/CMP, lipids, etc., and re-check 8–12 weeks after dose changes.

  • On aging/longevity: They argue there’s no good evidence TRT (at physiologic doses) accelerates aging or shortens life; eunuch longevity data are weak/inapplicable. They see a probable net health‑span upside when dosed physiologically and paired with lifestyle.

  • Take‑homes from Matt:

    1. Do the lifestyle work first, but don’t be paralyzed if you’re truly hypogonadal.
    2. Work with an experienced clinician and monitor labs properly.
    3. Injectables > oral in most men (predictability, fewer side‑effects).
    4. Be ready to stay on it long‑term.

2) Critique

What’s strong / commendable

  • Process discipline: He first improved sleep, diet, alcohol, and training—good clinical hygiene before committing to life‑long TRT.
  • Differential diagnosis: Moving beyond total T to free T, SHBG, LH/FSH was key; correctly concludes primary hypogonadism.
  • Transparency on side‑effects & tradeoffs (hair, edema, appetite, HDL drop, fertility/point‑of‑no‑return).
  • Physiologic dosing and frequent labs: Emphasis on twice‑weekly small injections and tight lab follow‑up (8–12 weeks) mirrors best practice in many evidence‑based clinics.
  • Health‑span framing: Places TRT as adjunct to (not substitute for) training, nutrition, sleep.

Where it’s thin / unclear / potentially misleading

  1. Evidence base for longevity & CV risk

    • They say there’s “no data” TRT accelerates aging—which is fair—but the overall evidence on long-term cardiovascular risk/benefit is still mixed and methodologically messy (confounding by indication, varying doses, heterogenous monitoring). Acknowledge we lack large, long-duration RCTs in older hypogonadal men powered for MACE, dementia, and mortality.
  2. Fixed numeric targets

    • The “700–1000 ng/dL total / 130–200 pg/mL free T” targets are clinic preferences, not universal consensus. Some guidelines focus more on symptom control with levels in the mid‑normal range while minimizing side‑effects, not fixed ceilings.
  3. Automatic aromatase inhibitor (AI) use

    • Routine low‑dose anastrozole is controversial: many clinicians avoid prophylactic AIs, preferring to dose T appropriately and only treat E2 if symptomatic or clearly elevated, because over‑suppressing estradiol can harm lipids, bone, joints, and mood.
  4. Erythrocytosis underplayed

    • He didn’t get it, but hematocrit/hemoglobin elevation is one of the most common TRT adverse effects in practice; it deserves equal billing with acne and edema, plus a stated mitigation plan (dose reduction, donation, split dosing).
  5. Sleep apnea screening

    • Kevin rightly says screen before TRT, but the conversation could stress formal testing (home sleep study or PSG) in high‑risk phenotypes, and ongoing surveillance, since TRT can exacerbate untreated OSA.
  6. Fertility rescue options not deeply explored

    • They mention hCG/clomiphene in passing. For men wanting future fertility, co‑administration strategies (hCG ± FSH or enclomiphene) deserve clearer explanation up front.
  7. Oral T experience generalized

    • Matt’s poor response to Jatenzo is real, but some men tolerate it, and cost/access can occasionally make it sensible. The podcast frames injectables as near-universal; a more nuanced algorithm (e.g., injectables first‑line but orals/gels in specific cases) would help.
  8. Body‑comp & appetite management

    • He gained ~8.5 lb fat along with lean mass and noted marked hyperphagia. The episode doesn’t offer tools to prevent overshooting energy intake (protein anchoring, structured feeding windows, GLP‑1 agonists if indicated, etc.).
  9. No structured risk‑management plan presented

    • Helpful to show: exact lab panel & cadence, stop/adjust thresholds (e.g., Hct >54%), PSA/DEXA cadence, contraindications/relative contraindications, what to do before surgeries/travel, etc.

Practical additions I’d suggest (if they do a follow‑up / AMA)

  • Present a monitoring table (baseline → 8–12 wks → 6 months → annually):

    • CBC (Hct/Hgb), CMP, lipids, A1c/fasting insulin or HOMA‑IR, PSA + DRE (age‑appropriate), TT, FT, SHBG, E2 (LC/MS if possible), DHT, LH/FSH, ± prolactin, IGF‑1, thyroid panel if symptoms overlap.
  • Pre‑start checklist: rule out reversible secondary hypogonadism (obesity, OSA, meds like opioids/SSRIs, hyperprolactinemia, hemochromatosis, pituitary disease).

  • Fertility path: spell out enclomiphene/hCG protocols, sperm banking.

  • Clear decision framework: When do you treat? (symptoms + morning TT below X twice + free T low + supportive LH/FSH pattern, after lifestyle optimization).

  • Estradiol philosophy: when to introduce/remove an AI, and how to avoid over‑suppression.

  • Travel & compliance tips: needles through TSA, backup syringes, refrigeration requirements (usually none for cypionate), injection site rotation.

  • RCT wish list: physiologic TRT in hypogonadal older men with hard endpoints (falls, fractures, sarcopenia, MACE, dementia).


3) Tidy (lightly condensed) transcript

0:00–2:04 — Why he’s sharing
Matt: I want to document my TRT journey because many men are where I was—symptomatic, unsure how to proceed—and Kevin helped me get it right.

2:05–6:21 — First signs & PCP dismissal
In his 40s (certainly by 50), Matt had low energy/libido, worse body‑comp, poor training returns. His PCP only checked total T (low‑normal) and told him he was fine. Later, on his own, he found high SHBG and low free T—suggesting a real deficiency.

6:22–11:18 — Lifestyle & supplement attempts
He cleaned diet, slashed alcohol, lifted, slept well. Tried boron (no effect) and DHEA (brief 3‑day symptomatic surge at ~100 mg/day, then nothing). Labs still showed high SHBG, low free T.

11:19–16:32 — Labs point to primary hypogonadism
Further testing revealed elevated LH & FSH + low free T + high SHBG, indicating primary hypogonadism (testes not responding). He clarifies rapamycin neither caused nor fixed his T deficiency.

16:33–21:20 — The decision & fears
He waffled ~1 year. Main concerns: permanent suppression of endogenous T/fertility, hair loss, personality change/“roid rage”, stigma, needles.

21:21–27:04 — First mistake: oral T (Jatenzo)
He chose oral T (Jatenzo) to avoid injections. Levels were fine, but he developed oily skin, acne, and striking water retention/edema (swollen ankles, loose skin). Stopped after ~3 months. Notes manufacturer coupons can dramatically cut cost.

27:05–33:16 — Switching to injections & results
Kevin transitioned him to injectable testosterone cypionate (twice weekly). Side‑effects disappeared; benefits were strong: energy, libido, mood, training response/body comp improved. He now puts TRT in his top 4–5 health interventions (with diet cleanup, resistance training, alcohol reduction). No erythrocytosis, no sleep apnea issues, no notable prostate changes, early hair thinning stabilized.

33:17–41:44 — Side‑effects & how they monitor
Common side‑effects discussed: RBC rise, acne/oily skin, edema, sleep apnea worsening, testicular atrophy/fertility loss, gynecomastia, mood changes, injection site irritation, hair loss.
Matt’s notable ones: acne/water retention on oral, hair thinning early, big appetite, HDL drop.
Kevin’s lab panel: TT, FT, SHBG, albumin, LH/FSH, estradiol, DHT, plus CBC, CMP, lipids, etc. Recheck 8–12 weeks post‑start or dose changes.

41:45–44:26 — Exact protocol
Preparation: 200 mg/mL testosterone cypionate + 0.5 mg/mL anastrozole in grapeseed oil.
Dose: 0.3 mL twice weekly → ~120 mg/week. Targets: TT ~700–1000 ng/dL; FT ~130–200 pg/mL. Low‑dose AI to limit aromatization.

44:27–51:03 — Does TRT speed aging?
They argue no convincing evidence. Eunuch longevity data are weak, confounded, and not applicable. In late‑life male deficiency, physiologic TRT likely improves health span (muscle, bone, cognition risk, frailty) and may help longevity, though that’s less certain.

51:04–55:05 — Closing takeaways

  • Lifestyle first, but don’t be paralyzed if you’re clearly hypogonadal.
  • Injectables are predictable and usually better tolerated.
  • Find an experienced clinician and monitor.
  • He’s open to AMA-style follow‑ups to answer detailed questions.

Want a shorter “printable” checklist of labs, dose ranges, and a stepwise decision tree you can take to a doctor? Say the word and I’ll draft it.

11 Likes

On one hand, I love that he is bringing awareness to this. However, I completely disagree with his decision to use Anastrozole to control estrogen.

Matt should have Dr. Andrew Winge on his podcast

Higher estradiol levels in men are linked to lower cardiovascular disease risk, according to recent studies.

Here are the key points from the video “Estradiol and CVD” by Man Medicine:
• The video reviews studies showing that higher estradiol (E2) levels in men are associated with lower rates of adverse cardiovascular outcomes, including reduced mortality from cardiovascular disease. ​⁠
• Many men on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) are prescribed aromatase inhibitors (AIs) or other medications to lower estradiol, often based on outdated or incorrect information. The presenter argues this practice may be harmful. ​⁠
• Reference ranges for estradiol in men on TRT are not reliable, and serum estradiol levels do not always reflect tissue levels, which are more relevant for health outcomes. ​⁠
• A highlighted 2022 study in the journal Atherosclerosis found that young and middle-aged men with lower endogenous estradiol had higher cardiovascular mortality, even after controlling for other risk factors. ​⁠
• The difference in mortality between men with higher and lower estradiol levels was significant, even though the difference in serum levels was relatively small. ​⁠
• The presenter shares his own experience: he deliberately maintains a high estradiol level (via oral estradiol) to lower his genetically high lipoprotein(a), a major cardiovascular risk factor, and has seen a 30% reduction, similar to expensive medications. ​⁠
• Additional studies in older men confirm the association between higher estradiol and reduced cardiovascular events and mortality, independent of testosterone levels. ​⁠
• Mechanisms by which estradiol may protect cardiovascular health include:
:white_small_square: Improving endothelial function (arterial flexibility and nitric oxide production) ​⁠
:white_small_square: Reducing insulin resistance (aromatase inhibition worsens insulin sensitivity) ​⁠
:white_small_square: Stabilizing arterial plaque and lowering inflammation ​⁠
• Lowering estradiol, even slightly, may increase long-term cardiovascular risk, and the presenter cautions against using AIs unless absolutely necessary. ​⁠
• The video concludes that men should be cautious about lowering estradiol, especially if the goal is to optimize long-term cardiovascular health. Decisions should be made with full information and in consultation with a knowledgeable physician. ​⁠

6 Likes

Say it ain’t so Matt!

You’re not on the juice?

You’re not roiding out on us?

Kind of surprised… and yet not as Matt creeps to the mid-50’s.

Hahaha… well it’s about time.
Matt is super careful and cautious, so him on TRT is a big green light to others sitting on the fence. Or, wondering… should I?

My 6 plus years of TRT have been nothing but positives… no negative issues come to mind.
Got strength and muscle :muscle: mass, energy, good mood, high libdo, bone density and heart health.

Sad for decades the negative stigma stopped so many men from TRT benefits.

That stigma is still somewhat present, despite current positive information.

10 Likes

Agreed. There’s no reason for it if he isn’t getting high E2 symptoms, and that would be odd to begin with given that he’s lean. He should instead just inject his testosterone a little more often. 0.3mg a week (0.5mg/mL x 0.6ml) is a lot of anastrozole for 120mg a week of testosterone.

My E2 is in the low 40s on TRT and I have no high-E2 symptoms. I know others in the 40-60 range with no issues. The often cited 20-30 range isn’t a bad reference, but it also shouldn’t be treated as a rule. So many people have no idea what they’re doing and go to doctors who are confident yet wrong. They all ought to learn from experienced bodybuilding coaches that have seen hundreds of detailed lab panels and will manage hormones better than 99% of doctors.

He also doesn’t seem to be aware that many men simply feel better on HCG regardless of fertility concerns. This is widely known by experienced clinicians and is a common refrain on TRT forums. It’s disappointing that Matt continues to under-reaearch topics and put out incomplete or partially incorrect information.

5 Likes

I didn’t take HCG until about 6 months ago finally. I definitely notice improved well being (as well as my balls coming back to normal size). Love it.

My estradiol was 49 prior to HCG on 20mg testosterone daily. I’m sure it’s a little higher now that I am on 200mcg HCG daily in addition but I don’t really care. Many theorize that the lab range of estradiol only applies to men who are not on TRT, and I am inclined to agree.

5 Likes

Being lean and allowing E2 to find its own level, so to speak, have brought my pulse wave velocity, blood pressure, and resting heart rate down noticably. I once tried to keep E2 in the “ideal” range that my doctor recommended, but it caused mild ED and significant libido issues!

Letting it float back up to balance my free T has worked much better and it’s obviously healthier.

When I stopped listening to doctors and started taking bodybuilding coaches more seriously I began to function better and got healthier. This makes sense, because they deal with very complicated hormonal situations and polypharmacy that require an incredible attention to detail and extraordinary risk management. The only doctor I know of who takes their expertise seriously is Thomas O’Connor. He is doing the world a service by training other doctors through his relatively new initiative that has the unfortunately corny name, “Testosteronology.”

The best thing I’ve done for my health recently is hire a very smart bodybuilding coach. He has me on nothing illegal, and I feel better after a month following his guidance than I have since COVID in 2021.

5 Likes

To add to your experience using an AI (like anastrozole or aromasin), I tried using each one time, got my E2 in the ideal range, but had old man aches and pains until I stopped.

You have one camp of people saying the side effects are from dropping E2 too low, while the other side (that we are part of) believe the AI drugs themselves are the problem. The association studies showing high E2 in men not on TRT seem to be just that, associations. Not causation.

And now that we are seeing other forms of estrogen improving lifespan in males in the ITP (like 17 alpha estradiol), I am inclined to think that is even more of a reason not to try to “control estrogen” while on testosterone.

4 Likes

I’m considering it myself as a 55 y/o female in implant form for menopausal hormone therapy.

1 Like

I’ve never tried anastrozole or aromasin but I tried using calcium D glucarate to control estrogen once and felt absolutely terrible. It felt like before I even started TRT.

I am curious to try ultra low dose aromasin at some point. Dissolve a single 25mg tablet into water and have a 1-3 drops maybe 2-3 times a week. My estrogen is quite high but I guess relative to my testosterone it is balanced, and I feel fine.

My thoughts as well. If anything I want to try 17 a estradiol.

3 Likes

Aromasin/exemestane is definitely preferable to anastrozole for avoidance of rebound should you stop, and you get the IGF-1 benefit (though small). Your thought about being careful about the dosing seems prudent given that exemestane is suicidal and can sneak up on you and last a while. Going very slow, not titrating up too quickly, and getting sensitive estradiol tests along the way would be the thing to do.

That said, I do wonder why you would want to lower your E2 if you feel good. Why do you want to change what isn’t broken?

Because it is quite high. I do feel a bit more emotional, but it doesn’t feel bad. It feels more human maybe? I dunno. I’m quite stoic in general.

I’m curious to see what I feel like with slightly modulated estrogen with the level of testosterone I’m at right now.

1 Like

Ahh, well I consider being too emotional a high E2 symptom. I think most men on TRT do. My first warning sign is anxiety, actually.

1 Like

Anxiety is pretty damn low. I feel confident. Almost cocky. Libido is high, higher than before I started TRT for sure. A little bit emotional sometimes though, so I might mess with a very tiny dose of aromasin, or perhaps DIM. Do you like DIM for this purpose?

1 Like

I don’t think hardly anyone needs AI on TRT doses. I only need AI on 600mg blasts, and even then I only need 0.25mg EOD.

1 Like

Overweight men often need an AI on TRT doses because aromatase is found in fat tissue.

2 Likes

I’ve never tried DIM, but whenever I have read a DIM anecdote the conclusion was that it was a waste of time.

1 Like

Are you basing this off their increased likelihood of symptoms or their lab test number?

Both symptoms and serum levels, in addition to the well known mechanism. A quick search or AI query will pop up references. I’ll attach one PDF below.

Many anecdotes on forums will confirm this, as will TRT clinics. When fat men lose weight, they can often drop the AI.

My own n=1 is that my E2 was 50% higher when my body fat percentile was in the 30s vs now (11-12%). It caused anorgasmia.and anxiety that resolved almost immediately upon taking anastrozole, which I no longer need.

The ovaries and adipose tissue convert an-
drostenedione and testosterone into estrogens
through P450 aromatase activity. Aromatase ac-
tivity is associated with body weight in both pre-
and post-menopausal females, and when knocked
out17, both female and male mice show obesity
with increased visceral fat17.
In adipose tissue, cytokines, including IL-6
and TNF-α, increase aromatase activity and tran-
scription of the aromatase gene18. In opposition, a
pulse of peroxisome proliferator activated recep-
tor gamma agonist (PPARgA) to preadipocyte
cultures of human breast cells decreases both
transcription and activity of aromatase19. In the
absence of PPARgA, subcutaneous abdominal
preadipocyte expression of the P450 aromatase
gene increases several days after induction of
differentiation9,20.

2021DEC13-SCE-23-32.pdf (972.2 KB)

2 Likes

Aromatase Inhibitors Plus Weight Loss Improves the Hormonal Profile of Obese Hypogonadal Men Without Causing Major Side Effects

In obese men, the increased expression of the aromatase enzyme in adipose tissue leads to high conversion of androgens to estrogens contributing to hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (HHG).

Altered Expression of Aromatase and Estrogen Receptors in Adipose Tissue From Men With Obesity or Type 2 Diabetes

Obesity and insulin resistance in men are linked to decreased testosterone and increased estradiol (E2) levels. Aromatase (ARO ) converts testosterone into E2, and this occurs mainly in adipose tissue in men. E2 acts through estrogen receptors ESR1 and ESR2 , and they potentially affect development of type 2 diabetes (T2D).

2 Likes

I have experimented with various doses of DIM for months. I saw no difference in my bloodwork and no subjective difference in energy, etc.
Though different people might respond differently, I consider it a complete waste of time and money.

2 Likes