Dr. Toman changed to enteric capsules after I brought to his attention the potential absorption issues with stomach acid and powdered capsules. I appreciate his efforts to make rapa available to pets, but I’m still skeptical of whether or not (or if so, how much) the enteric capsules will help absorption. It still could be just a fraction of the tablet dose, for all anyone knows at this point. Personally I’d just get tablets from a reliable overseas source and use the same weekly dose as the current Dog Aging Project study (0.15 mg/kg/week).
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Nice work bringing it to his attention.
I have been using the capsules and having terrific results. On the other hand I am using 3 mg 3 X per week for a 55 pound dog. So that is 9 mg for a 25 kg dog so that is .36/kg if you total up for a week.
So more than double the current dog aging trial. On the other hand I have seen terrific results.
Perhaps that is because some of the dose is getting eaten up by stomach acid…so she is not actually getting all of that dose…hmmmm
Perhaps I am getting great results because she is on a high dose?
Perhaps when we get the new enoteric capsules and I keep her on same dose she is going to have some “too high of a dose” reaction.
Perhaps as you say with the new capsules it won’t work that well and she gets a bit higher dose and stays fine.
If I switch her to same dose with tablets perhaps she is going to get too much?
If I switch her to tablets and keep same dose perhaps she is going to get too much?
If I switch her to tablets at the lower dose that the dog aging project is using maybe she regresses from the tremendous benefits I have seen with her reduced limping and increased energy and affection
On the other hand the tablets from India are dramatically less expensive.
Wow…lots to think about…
I am not sure what to do
Thoughts anyone?
If I recall correctly, from an interview Matt Kaeberlein said that he opted for the dose used in the dog
to eek on the side of safety.
What I think is that he didn’t want people’s dog getting side effects and them leaving the study.
Timestamp 44:35
Now, I have no clue what the dose would have been if Matt Kaeberlein disregarded the issue of people leaving/side effects.
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A new story covering why dogs are great models for aging:
This is a great thread. TIA
My vet has experience dosing rapamycin for osteosarcoma in dogs. His hesitation is, because it’s a “mycin” how it might impact a dog’s microbiome. Any thoughts?
Also, I’ve heard on Attia’s podcasts that he prefers branded over compounded rapamycin. Does anyone know if Dr. Kevin Toman is dosing Sirolimus?
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On the issue of rapamycin affecting the microbiome, yes, that is probably the case. In most studies the poop from the animals is much smaller coming from the rapamycin-fed animals. But we don’t know if thats a negative or positive thing, all we know is that in all the mammal studies done to date the mammals live longer on rapamycin so the net effect seems to be positive (even if the microbiome changes are a negative): List of all the Mouse Studies Showing Rapamycin Lifespan Extension
The Dog Aging Study with rapamycin (TRIAD) is in process and we’ll know more in 2026 when the first results start to come out, until then we’re mostly basing our longevity knowledge on mouse data.
You can see detailed information on the Dog Aging project in this post: The Longevity Summit, News & Update - #8 by RapAdmin
Also - some interesting news on Golden Retriever aging…
“They’re always in love mode; they always do things to please you,” Lappin told me. In his early days as a vet, golden retrievers were also, he remembered, notably long-lived for large dogs: He’d see them thrive well into their teens, up to 17 years of age. They could be with families for nearly a generation at a time.
But somewhere along Lappin’s long career, he said something changed: Goldens were not living as long. He started seeing many of his golden retriever patients die of cancer before they hit 13. Many succumbed to the disease when they were even younger.
Years of anecdotal reports from other golden lovers as well as scattershot studies seemed to support the idea that something was wrong: Were the big, sweet dogs now perishing earlier than their forebears? Why?
Today, there is a consensus among veterinarians that golden retrievers have some of the highest rates of cancer of any dog breed.
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Can you tell me if Dr. Toman is giving rapamycin from a compounding pharmacy or dosing branded Sirolimus?
On his website he describes his rapamycin as “capsules” which leads me to believe he’s using compounding pharmacy sirolimus capsules. See here: RAPAMYCIN CAPSULES... For Loved Dogs. Like Yours. – HelpingPetsLiveLonger.com
I think that generic sirolimus tablets are likely a better bet, for bioavailability.
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Great point. Many thanks.
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Great article, thanks. Basically they are saying that breeding for show has ruined another breed. True enough and fair enough, but I think it is possible to breed for longevity. They bring this up toward the end. Whatever the breeder thinks is important is what you get. If you need them to look a certain way, then you will end up losing everything else.
Farm animals bred for show are a different thing altogether than farm animals bred for productivity. With animals you have to decide what you want and go to a breeder that wants the same thing.
Also I still think the dog food could be responsible for the cancer.
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My dog has been on rapamycin for 7 months and he has allways had problems with colitis and diarrhea. Once every few weeks. Was really troublesome but since taking rapamycin once weekly he had zero days with diarrhea and his poo has changed tremendously, it is lighter in color, more compact but at the same time seems really lubricated, hard to explain, but looks healthier. So indeed it has some effect on gut.
Id did have the some effect on my gut. I am taking acarbose too, so it is hard to distinguish between what is rapamycin and what is acarbose, but my gut works differently. I have daily bowel movements which were more of an exception than a rule previously.
I still use for myself and my dog “branded” rapamycin, pfizer rapamune. It is the only one available in Europe, but it supposedly have a far better bioavailability comparing to generic versions, that is why generics are not on European market. Compounded rapamycin capsules as much as I have researched can have almost zero bioavailability (some are better, depends on capsule, whether is enteric or not).
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I get capsules that he says has a enoteric coating. I have kept the dose the same and seen no changes in behavior and no side effects.
One interesting change is that her stool size is larger that I think could be related to the new pills as I don’t think much else has changed. I would say it was noticeably smaller before and is more the size I would expect from a dog her size now.
Dr Toman now has us trying a few more new things…we added Acarbose, Metformin, Taurine and Fisetin. She has been on these a few months now. She is doing terrific and no side effects. A test of one I know but I will keep folks posted
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An interesting case study to be aware of:
Case Report: Severe Asymptomatic Hypertriglyceridemia Associated with Long-Term Low-Dose Rapamycin Administration in a Healthy Middle-Aged Labrador Retriever
Rapamycin is an mTOR inhibitor that has been shown to extend the lifespan of laboratory model organisms. In humans, rapamycin is used at higher doses as an immunosuppressive medication to prevent organ rejection. Numerous adverse effects are seen with rapamycin treatment in humans, with one of the most common being dysregulation of lipid metabolism. In humans, this often manifests as mild to moderate serum lipid elevations, with a small subset developing extreme triglyceride elevations. This case report describes an 8-year-old, castrated male, clinically healthy Labrador retriever who developed severe hypertriglyceridemia associated with low-dose rapamycin administration over a six-month period. During this time, the dog was asymptomatic and displayed no other clinical abnormalities, aside from a progressive lipemia. Within 15 days of discontinuing rapamycin treatment, and with no targeted lipemic intervention, the dog’s lipemia and hypertriglyceridemia completely resolved.
I’m not sold on the enteric capsules being any better than non-enteric for absorption; however, Dr. Toman sent out an email recently that California vet laws have changed, which allows him to do tele-vet consults AND prescribe vet medicines out of state. In theory, that means he could now prescribe genuine sirolimus tablets for your dog from your local pharmacy in the USA. Whether or not he’ll do this, I have no idea, since his business model may in part depend on sales of his imported/compounded rapa. Also, of course, even if he would prescribe it, generic sirolimus/rapa isn’t cheap!
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Yes - I’d be very wary of any sirolimus from a compounding pharmacy (where they buy powder and put it into capsules themselves). We’ve heard so much from numerous doctors and researchers that the bioavailability of the compounded pharmacy sirolimus has problems with bioavailability. At a minimum I’d ask any doctor that is prescribing compounded pharmacy rapamycin / sirolimus to product some blood tests that validate that the sirolimus is not just being destroyed in the stomach of the dog (or person).
Here: Bioavailability of Rapamycin From Compounding Pharmacy
Here: New Peter Attia interview w/Matt Kaeberlein, inferior bioavailability of encapsulated rapa
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Maybe I will just switch her to the same pills I ordered from India.
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Shared my pharmacy rapamycin/siriolimus with a friend whose dog was 14 years old a year ago… dog had no energy… slept with a warming blanket… hardly moved… today the pup is swimming around the pool.
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My 15-17 y/o rescue chihuahua is doing great on rapa. We started him on it in January 2023 as a last ditch effort after he rapidly declined and had a ruptured CCL in the fall of 2022. The vet was supposed to give us an orthopedic referral for him and sadly never got back to us even with after repeated requests from my husband. We were seriously expecting the worst and I didn’t think my rapa order was going to arrive in time to help him because he was so pitiful. I gave him a dose immediately after getting it in the mail on the evening of 1/6/23 and he was acting different by the next morning. His energy and excitement returned rapidly and his mobility improved dramatically over the next few weeks. He’s only had one time where his leg seemed to be bothering him in the last 11 months and I just gave him an extra dose that week. He runs and plays like he did when he was around 8 now. I fortunately haven’t needed to take him to the vet since he’s been on rapa but I would like to find him someone who is rapa friendly in case of future need.
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Kuvasz dog, 12 years, 1 mg each 10 days, for 3 months. aparently more energetic by the opinion of 2 family members that do not know dog gets rapa.
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This is a loooong thread. I started at the beginning but gave up… So, it’s probably been mentioned already but dogs have a much more acidic stomach acid than humans. Like 10x more. And, around 100x more the volume of stomach acid. Also, dogs have a much shorter digestive tract than humans. Therefore the food and drugs consumed by humans have more time to digest and absorb. The more acidic digestive system and short digestive tract of dogs are a couple of the reasons why they can easily digest bones and avoid becoming ill from eating a dead animal that has been rotting in the dirt. Probably has something to do why they might be using special capsules for rapamycin in the trials.
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