anyone notice gum sensitivity using rapa toothpaste?
I’ve never had any issues. I can’t tell any difference compared to regular toothpaste. I’ve just finished a 3 month stint of using it twice a day, and will restart in another month or so.
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And now this, over the counter supplement for teeth health. Add to rapamycin tooth paste?
Diindolylmethane (DIM), also known as bisindole, that can cut down the biofilms responsible for plaque and cavities by 90%.
Natural Molecule Wipes Out 90% of Cavity-Causing Plaque
https://scitechdaily.com/natural-molecule-wipes-out-90-of-cavity-causing-plaque/
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KongKandy, Yes. With crowns and other dental work sensitivity to cold water starts after several weeks of use. I could speculate on the reason, but it would just be one person’s opinion. Using Sensodyne toothpaste solves the problem within two weeks. I’m now experimenting with Rapamycin toothpaste in the morning and regular toothpaste (or Sensodyne) at night.
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Just a quick note: make sure the toothpaste contains the ingredient “Novamin”. Sensodyne sells a bunch of different toothpastes, but only the one with that specific ingredient actually works for sensitivity.
And with regards to this whole thread: what is the proposed mechanism of action here? Gums recede with age, and how is inhibiting mTor in the mouth epithelium supposed to help with that? I don’t quite “get” it.
I think it’s a bandaid and only work while the ingredient is on the teeth, and unsolicited advice: stannous flouride toothpaste can be considered the best toothpaste in general according to different metrics and studies depending on your priorities:
It is like a bandaid, but the effect is quite long lasting, in my experience. I had horrible sensitive teeth, and a few days after using Novamin 2x per day, they were significantly less sensitive. After using it for several years now, I simply don’t have sensitive teeth any more and haven’t thought about it for a long time.
In terms of cavity prevention, tooth decay, tooth loss, I have absolutely no idea. But being able to have a cold drink without wincing in pain is a huge quality of life upgrade!
If DIM works as indicated in several studies it is definitely something to add to oral care routines. Plus it’s dirt cheap.
I’m going to add this to my mouth wash.
Also looks good for skin care…
https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/spectrum.02056-21
In the present study, we investigated the antibacterial and antibiofilm activities of 20 indoles against C. acnes. Of the indoles tested, indole-3-carbinol at 0.1 mM significantly inhibited biofilm formation by C. acnes without affecting planktonic cell growth, and the anticancer drug 3,3′-diindolylmethane (DIM) at 0.1 mM (32 μg/mL) also significantly inhibited planktonic cell growth and biofilm formation by C. acnes, whereas the other indoles and indole itself were less effective. Also, DIM at 0.1 mM successfully inhibited multispecies biofilm formation by C. acnes, S. aureus, and C. albicans. Transcriptional analyses showed that DIM inhibited the expressions of several biofilm-related genes in C. acnes, and at 0.05 mM, DIM inhibited hyphal formation and cell aggregation by C. albicans. These results suggest that DIM and other indoles inhibit biofilm formation by C. acnes and have potential use for treating C. acnes associated diseases.
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I’ve been using DIM powder for a couple months now and it is quite amazing. I noticed the effect immediately. We empty a cap in our mouth and then brush with our usual toothpaste.
Interestingly it smells a bit like “gas” and that seems to be a result of the methane component of DIM (diindolylmethane)
My teeth feel like they have been cleaned by a dentist every day. I only use it in my morning routine and have skipped a few days to see how long this effect lasts. After continuous use for a week, it seems to last 3 to 4 days, then clean feeling starts to dissipate like a dental cleaning does.
We also started taking it in a cap in our daily supplement regimen. With the hope/speculation it may mitigate the other harmful biofilms in our body.
I think this oral biofilm is one of the reasons the hype about Hydroxyapatite seems to be over done. I’ve used hydroxy toothpaste in the past and did not see any visible effect. I’m now wondering if removing this biofilm will allow the Hydroxyapatite to be more effective in restoring tooth enamel. According the studies I’ve read the test tooth enamel is scraped clean before application to get the rebuilding effect. In dental offices they prep the teeth before hydroxy applications. Which makes a lot of sense to me.
I have DIM powder and Hydroxy powder in stock now and will be experimenting with a “paste”. My wife and I have a favorite toothpaste. I do not want to switch to another. My concept will be to make the DIM/HYA paste separate from any toothpaste so people can add this to their normal dental routine and keep their fav toothpaste.
Once I have the formula sorted I’ll post it here.
dim from cruciferous vegetables.pdf (313.4 KB)
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Why not use all three powders: Rapamycin, Metformin and Melatonin?
Personally it helped a lot with gum health.
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See this post and associated links: New Study Funded: Towards reversing periodontal disease using Rapamycin
especially this link: https://snapshot.org/#/s:vote.vitadao.eth/proposal/0x8464713774628fa0af6262478f7c1ecccb0a3272cc72f6324183f598e9f29007
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If you don’t mind sharing, what is your current recipe?
Have you seen the thread on following Dr Ellie’s protocol? From a Wise Athletes podcast. Would love your thoughts.
She advises using specific old school products, like ACT, Crest, etc. Joe Lavelle and Medaura each noticed a significant difference.
I have not used traditional products or fluoride in 30 years, but I did just start the protocol as a 3 month trial… as much as it’s killing me to do so.
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I do not know of any old school product that can eliminate biofilm on teeth. Like many of us here, I’ve been brushing my teeth for nearly 70 years so I started with the old school products and still had cavities. If “old school” products worked better, cavities would have been virtually eliminated “back in the day”. But they weren’t eliminated. Since cavities were and still are a problem those products don’t do the vital function of removing biofilm.
Only a proper cleaning by a dentist or dental tech has ever made my teeth feel like this.
It’s like night and day. It’s also cheap and easy 
I’ve started asking friends and family what causes cavities and 90% answer with sugar. But sugar does not cause cavities, the bacteria sugar feeds causes the cavities.
Eliminate the biofilm the bacteria lives in for real cavity prevention.
With no biofilm on your teeth, then hydroxyapatite will be able to restore the enamel.
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There is something very specific about the exact versions of the products she recommends and the order in which she uses them.
I’ll tag @medaura who can explain it in a way I would not dare attempt!
And medaura, are we trying Steve’s DIM next?!
My teeth always feel good and no better after I leave the dentist… this is to his chagrin in because he’s hates the hippy dippy products I use and so wants me to use fluoride etc.
FWIW, aside from getting one cavity during my year long chocolate edible phase (there were a handful I nights I consumed them late, after I brushed, duh) , I have not had a cavity since elementary school. No idea why I’m so fortunate.
Steve, is there any potential negative downside effect of consuming DIM?
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As an oral care product one would not consume very much at all.
As a dietary supplement there seems to be a number of benefits and a few on the downside. It looks like if you consume 150mg or less it’s quite safe. Getting that amount from cruciferous veggies would be very difficult.
dim from cruciferous vegetables.pdf (313.4 KB)
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This DIM sounds very promising actually. But it doesn’t sound like it needs to be ingested for staph mutans biofilm busting, rather be topically applied instead. And my problem with it is that apparently it tastes nasty. Might still give it a whirl though.
Xylitol tastes great and pretty much does she same thing: it doesn’t kill staph mutans but rather hacks away at its ability to stick to other staph cells and / or teeth — basically loosens staph biofilm so it can be either swallowed and killed in the stomach or removed with a toothbrush.
Also I don’t think it’s possible or at least not advisable even if it were possible to get rid of all mouth biofilm. I think you mean infected biofilm so that’s a meaningful distinction. Most bacteria in the mouth are commensal and even beneficial. Again both xylitol and DIM seem to selectively impair staph biofilm while leaving the other critters be, and in xylitol’s case at least, even feeding them.
Apparently saliva itself, provided we eat well, had decent digestion, and give it enough time to do its job, will remineralize teeth. It creates hydroxyapatite crystals of the right size and shape to be properly grafted on to tooth enamel. The problem, according to Ellie Phillips, is most people don’t let their mouths be long enough for this to happen — if you keep eating / snacking / drinking as the day is long, the saliva gets diluted and acidified and doesn’t get enough time to do its repair job. At night it’s also suboptimal in flow and composition for circadian rhythm related reasons. Our job is to practice “mouth rest” — intermittent fasting, including abstinence from water, throughout the day. And by intermittent she means 1-2 hours at a time at least going without putting anything in the mouth.
She also recommends small amounts of xylitol throughout the day (6-10g) to prevent plaque from taking hold and loosening any existing one.
Last but not least, a sequence of certain over the counter products every morning and night, and certain kinds of toothbrushes, used a certain way. I’m loth to get into details as I’m sure whoever reads my abridged take will miss important details but suffice it to say, there are compelling reasons why these products work when used in a sequence but might not work separately. I’ll just give one example: Listerine Original or Cool Mint have ingredients which are very beneficial for gums and also can kill staph and lessen its biofilm hopefully down to nothing when used regularly. HOWEVER the formulation is highly acidic which makes it really bad for teeth IF you leave it on as the last thing before going to bed. So it needs to be followed by something that will alkalize the mouth.
Anyway I highly recommend her YT materials. My teeth feel as if I’ve just had them cleaned at the dentist with zero plaque anywhere, and that’s a first. I used to think they were in good shape but now I realize that means zero plaque at all and zero cavities and it’s finally achievable.
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Don’t these mouth washes also kill “good” bacteria that (for instance) convert nitrate to nitrite and help to optimize blood vessel endothelial function via nitric oxide?
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So do ours feel like a recent dentist cleaning with a little bit of DIM every morning, its not swallowed it’s brushed on and I’m not one to care about taste. I’m one of those function over form people
The oral jell I’m working on, will have DIM, micronized Hydroxyapetite and maybe Xylitol. It’s not intended to be a substitute for toothpaste or good oral care practices, it’s an add-on for friends and family who would like to have some additional benefits.
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Depends on the formulation apparently. Listerine original and Cool Mint apparently are pretty selective towards pathogenic bacteria. Dr. Ellie, who eats her own dog food, apparently scores real high on those pink strips.