Deprenyl - Anti-Aging Drug Proven Effective in Dogs

A little on the history of Deprenyl and aging:

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FWIW

I have been reviewing information, thinking of taking deprenyl.

Came across the following, posting this PDF attachment.

deprenyl (1).pdf (6.4 MB)

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He mentions a liquid product called DepPro near the end of the PDF you linked to. About 1mg of Deprenyl per drop. That would make it more convenient than cutting a five milligram pill into five pieces.

I found it online for $69.99 for 300 mg. So it would only be about $7 per month at their recommended dosage of 1 mg per day.

LEF recommends 10 mg per week. That would be about $10 per month.

Per info in another recent thread, Deprenyl was found to work synergistically with Polyscias Fruticosa in mice and rats. I just started making tea from it a couple days ago. (Aka dinh lang, or ming aralia).

I am considering more like 5mg per day.

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I’ll add Knoll is the originator of almost all the life-extending mice research. There are ones with null effect. It’s merely an observation - hard to conclusively take it one way or the other.

I think you are right, he emailed me when this thread started. Lots of good info but there are some complexities with deprenyl.

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Which/what complexities?

Just all the ones mentioned in this thread - potential interactions with certain other medications, etc.

MAO inhibitor? Goodbye aged cheese for spermidine. This will produce the tyramine effect, resulting in severe hypertension.

Biochemistry, Tyramine - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf.

I cannot give up aged cheese.

I think that is why I avoided it, after I read it, from I believe, Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw.

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Goodbye as well to the following:

Examples of foods high in tyramine include:

  • Strong or aged cheeses, such as aged cheddar, Swiss and Parmesan; blue cheeses such as Stilton and Gorgonzola; and Camembert. Cheeses made from pasteurized milk are less likely to contain high levels of tyramine — for example, American cheese, cottage cheese, ricotta, farmer cheese and cream cheese.
  • Cured meats, which are meats treated with salt and nitrate or nitrite, such as dry-type summer sausages, pepperoni and salami.
  • Smoked or processed meats, such as hot dogs, bologna, bacon, corned beef or smoked fish.
  • Pickled or fermented foods, such as sauerkraut, kimchi, caviar, tofu or pickles.
  • Sauces, such as soy sauce, shrimp sauce, fish sauce, miso and teriyaki sauce.
  • Soybeans and soybean products.
  • Snow peas, broad beans (fava beans) and their pods.
  • Dried or overripe fruits, such as raisins or prunes, or overripe bananas or avocados.
  • Meat tenderizers or meat prepared with tenderizers.
  • Yeast-extract spreads, such as Marmite, brewer’s yeast or sourdough bread.
  • Alcoholic beverages, such as beer — especially tap or homebrewed beer — red wine, sherry and liqueurs.
  • Combination foods that contain any of the above ingredients.
  • Improperly stored foods or spoiled foods. While you’re taking an MAOI, your doctor may recommend eating only fresh foods — not leftovers or foods past their freshness dates.

I drink beer, take nutritional yeast for RNA, and aged cheddar, all of which I prefer not to give up.

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Yes - it seems like it becomes a huge burden in terms of diet and medication management on a daily basis. Too much work for me.

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This is from the Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine. Abstract and full text PDF:

Experimental studies suggest that inhibi-
tion of more than 70% of MAO-A activity is
necessary for the antidepressant effect of sele-
giline. At oral doses that selectively inhibit
MAO-B (5–10 mg/day), selegiline
does not
seem to have potent antidepressant activity,
although it does show success as an adjunc-
tive treatment for Parkinson disease and does
not necessitate any dietary restriction
. Only
at higher oral doses (20–60 mg/day), at which
MAO-B selectivity is lost, is the antidepres-
sant effect seen. But the higher doses neces-
sitate dietary restrictions.

According to the above, lower doses of 5-10 mg/day don’t necessitate dietary restrictions. But doses above this do. Also, some other sources recommend protocols of only 1 mg per day for anti-aging, or 10 mg per week like the Life Extension Foundation.

Here’s another study reference with link to abstract below:

Unlike the nonselective MAO inhibitors, selegiline does not significantly potentiate tyramine-induced hypertension (the ‘cheese effect’) at the dosages (5 to 10 mg daily) used for the treatment of Parkinson’s disease.

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I’ll note rare hypertensive reactions with tyramine products have been reported under 10 mg tablet per day. You’re citing an old study. It’s likely that MAO-A still gets inhibited to some extent at lower doses, perhaps worse in some people. “Selective” at low doses doesn’t mean it’s suddenly no activity at the off-target - it’s a gradient that probably varies by individual. There is no guaranteed magical cutoff

Is this a severe issue specifically for diet restriction for most people? Probably not. But it isn’t as completely and conclusively safe as the promoters claim it to be either. One hypertensive crisis reaction is enough to potentially cause severe or fatal harm in some folks who may falsely assume 100% safety.

It’s noncompetitive inhibition, so not as simple as it seems. I’ll also mention it’s possible for other drug-drug interactions for a hyperadrenergic state that leads to a hypertensive crisis, not just a tyramine deal.

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I cited two. And Deprenyl has been approved since 1989. And the Cleveland Clinic paper is from 2010. That doesn’t qualify as old to me.

This comes from Mayo Clinic:

“When selegiline is taken at doses of 10 mg or less per day for the treatment of Parkinson’s disease, there are no restrictions on food or beverages you eat or drink.”

Also, if you’re following the LEF protocol at daily dosages totaling 10 mg per week, or the most common recommendation of 1 mg per day, you are then taking one seventh or one tenth of a dosage that these sources say are safe to use without food restriction. That’s quite an additional safety margin.

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I wasn’t referring to the Cleveland Clinic paper which does not say there are no chance for possible side effects if you read it very closely so typically patient education and monitoring etc happens to monitor rare side effects, the second cited one that does make this “no side effect” claim was 1998.

I wonder if you read the much more updated FDA drug packet at the very least before taking or suggesting any drug for human use without fully understanding it. This shows that 1998 claim was wrong to assume. It’s a pretty basic step to read the updated fine print as a first step. This one is the 5 mg tablet specifically for PD.

Again, not as simple as you think. Safety margin may be high for 1 mg when applied to tyramine only, but there are still possible risk factors such as a range of drug interactions, not just tyramine.

“In theory, since MAO-A of the gut is not inhibited, patients treated with selegiline at a dose of 10 mg a day should be able to take medications containing pharmacologically active amines and consume tyramine-containing foods without risk of uncontrolled hypertension. Although rare, a few reports of hypertensive reactions have occurred in patients receiving selegiline at the recommended dose, with tyramine-containing foods. In addition, one case of hypertensive crisis has been reported in a patient taking the recommended dose of selegiline and a sympathomimetic medication, ephedrine. The pathophysiology of the ‘cheese reaction’ is complicated and, in addition to its ability to inhibit MAO-B selectively, selegiline’s relative freedom from this reaction has been attributed to an ability to prevent tyramine and other indirect acting sympathomimetics from displacing norepinephrine from adrenergic neurons. However, until the pathophysiology of the ‘cheese reaction’ is more completely understood, it seems prudent to assume that selegiline can ordinarily only be used safely without dietary restrictions at doses where it presumably selectively inhibits MAO-B (e.g., 10 mg/day). In short, attention to the dose dependent nature of selegiline’s selectivity is critical if it is to be used without elaborate restrictions being placed on diet and concomitant drug use although, as noted above, a few cases of hypertensive reactions have been reported at the recommended dose.”

(See WARNING and PRECAUTIONS.)

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Without fully understanding it? I’m not interested in being talked down to by you. Also, if you’re going to keep holding yourself out as a medical doctor and speaking with an air of professional authority, I think you need to provide indentifying information in your profile as other professionals here have done. Otherwise, you should probably amend your username and stop mentioning you’re a medical doctor.

As an analogy, if someone was on a forum complaining about problems they’re having with their residential landlord not making certain repairs, a response from another regular member saying, “If I were you, I’d withhold rent”, would be taken much differently than someone else posting and claiming to be an attorney with username “John Smith, Esq” and saying, “One remedy is to withhold rental payments until requested repairs are made.” And then putting a legal advice disclaimer under their name.

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First, off I didn’t say you didn’t understand because you’re not an MD, nor would I tell someone off just because they are not an MD. I’ve told the same exact things to colleagues. I’m showing you are literally not understanding the issue despite already previously mentioning it twice and not even reading the basics. It’s frustrating.

Second, I don’t need to reveal my full identity publicly due to the sensitive information shared here nor I have any desire for anyone on the internet I don’t fully trust to start harassing me or calling work with any of this. And yes I am real. At least several folks who have been massively messaging me since the day of time think and perhaps know I am. I’m more than happy to use a shared third party to vouch and verify as needed, but I’m not going to share my identity publicly.

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From experience being on an maoi for several lengthy periods, I think the dietary restrictions are very overstated. When I was on phenelzine, I pushed the boundaries with all nearly all of the forbidden foods (not including aged meat) and never had a hypertensive crisis. Perhaps there were a few odd occasions where I felt a slightly elevated heart rate. I think the picture became more clear when they did tyramine challenges during the emsam patch trials. Very few of the foods once thought to have tyramine actually do. Anyhow if you want to practice abundant caution with deprenyl you can get around gut mao inhibition with sublingual admin. IIRC the nootropic recommendation is 1mg sublingual to get the approximate effect of 5mg oral, so the drops would be perfect for that. Caveat emptor. Personally I can’t stand how deprenyl makes me feel within 2-3 days of taking 5mg daily. Others describe that as a motivation and mood boost. I just feel agitated.

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Actually, yesterday in another related thread about Deprenyl, I posted an abstract where the researcher recommended 1 mg daily of Deprenyl as an antiaging drug. You then responded and said, “Low-dose Deprenyl is a given, the typical adjunct dose is 1.25 mg per day to start for PD.” I then politely informed you that was only for the pill that dissolves in the mouth, as the typical dosage for regular Deprenyl for treating PD is 5 mg twice daily. You then responded again, claiming the kind that dissolves orally is what you were actually talking about: “Yes, I was referring to ODT 1.25 mg qd as initial dose - also oral tab 5 mg twice daily is not always the case - some docs use half or less to start.” Which makes zero sense as a response to my post about the 1 mg regular Deprenyl paper. You obviously made a mistake and covered it up. And then did you go back and do editing?

You also engage in subtle sophistry and straw man argumentation in your posts and seem to assume that other people aren’t as smart as you so they won’t notice.

I’m not impressed with the idea of another username and possible sock puppet “vouching” for you, not even the owners. You’re the one making the claims. You can support them with identifying info as other doctors and pharmacists and such here, or you can come down to the same level as the rest of us and start sharing your personal opinions and ideas without the air of professional authority. That’s just my opinion. If it isn’t shared by the owners or others here, okay. I’ll just be a dissenting voice.

This will be my last post related to this.

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Nowhere did I suggest a sock puppet, happy to go with admin to vouch and verify NPI and ID privately, and not sure why you’re jumping to an assumption of malice here - where did I use an air of authority or an appeal to authority?

Others don’t necessarily have the same level of general asset protection principles I follow. Heck, I see plenty of colleagues who don’t even buy umbrella insurance at the bare minimum. Nor do others have the sensitive information I have shared previously. For example, psilocybin use. Not quite the type of deal the medical board would take kindly, just to start.

If you don’t like it, so be it. I don’t expect everyone to understand my reasons. I don’t mind if you block me.