Apolipoprotein B (ApoB)

There are no biomarkers in an otherwise healthy individual to be lowered that is as powerful as apoB to prevent health decline and increase longevity. I think I have summarized the most important of the current information in this thread, if I missed anything you can post it here.

ApoB is the Rate-Limiting Step in prevention of cardiovascular disease, which is the primary cause of death in the U.S. and across the world. The leading cause of death today, with 17.9 million deaths yearly, 1 in 5 people die from it (1). Although a multi-factorial process, it can be controlled and prevented by this single factor.

There are untold amounts of people who survive their heart attack or stroke but are maimed for life with diminished quality of life. As such, even though reducing apoB improves lifespan, preventing heart attacks and strokes are worthy in of itself especially if the prevention strategy has a proven net benefit by reducing all-cause mortality.

The importance of apoB comes from the way it affects the disease process unlike any other factor, it is the bottleneck factor, which is limited enough, halts the progress of the disease. So although the disease is multifactorial, if you stack the cards in the direction of lowering apoB, the other factors don’t matter as much if you did it early enough.

It’s Rate-Limiting Because of Genetic Studies

We know that people who genetically, are born with lower apoB levels have much lower amounts of heart disease. Because these genes are randomly assigned at birth, as people don’t choose a partner based on genetic apoB levels, these studies have in a sense been subject to randomization which is important to find cause and effect.

ApoB is the more accurate measurement taking the place of LDL as the new rate-limiting factor. They can mostly be used interchangeably but apoB is measuring the actual factor while LDL is simply a marker (2).

If you place the genetic reduction on a curve, you will see that even a small lifelong 38 mg/dl reduction in LDL reduces cardiovascular events by over 50% (3). In the graph you can see this point at 40 years out.

The points at the beginning of the graph are studies of drugs lowering apoB in clinical trials, they are of shorter duration so the magnitude of the effect is smaller. The clinical trials are also randomized, so able to find cause and effect in a similar way as the genetic studies.

The genetic studies show us the power of it and why they can be a botteneck on the process of developing cardiovascular disease and causing its events. Since the function of these genes are carefully analyzed, we can know if these genes can only lower apoB. That means that despite of the other factors presence, simply lowering LDL if early is enough is good on its own if it’s early enough. Since most of us have atherosclerotic plaque, which is something that is found in even young people, lowering apoB shouldn’t be considered the only strategy. But if you were lucky to be born with a mutation in the PCSK9 gene leading to loss of function of that gene, which led to the development of the PCSK9 inhibitors, you would be pretty much protected from the disease.

Elevated apoB is a really bad time

On the opposite side of the coin, since you can prevent the disease so greatly simply by turning the knob on this parameter if early enough, you can also accelerate the process if elevated. If your apoB is increased by 24 mg/dl from the average at 100 mg/dl, you have 60% lower chance of living to 90th percentile lifespan (4). We can see in a similar way events increasing from every amount above 70 mg/dl, where every increase of 24 mg/dl doubles the risk of cardiovascular events (5). The same study shows us also the true relationship between apoB and CAD without any residual confounding in the graph below. This study was not significant for apoB and all-cause mortality, but it was for LDL, most likely because it had a greater ability to detect it. Usually studies have more information on LDL which increases its ability to detect effects on total mortality that overall is affected by so many other things which reduces the explanatory power of apoB. There is the usual saying that even if you prevented everyone from getting cancer, or heart disease, they would only live a few years longer.

If you are expected to live long you need a low apoB

Cardiovascular disease is not an age-related disease, it is a time-related disease. Although the average person wouldn’t live that much longer if they prevented heart disease. Eventually the exposure you have of total atherogenic lipoproteins will catch up with you. From being the potential botteneck on the progression of your cardiovascular disease if lowered enough, it became the bottleneck on your longevity. We know this because this disease develops in youth as well, and in fact, as shown in the genetic studies, is very much dependent on time and your total exposure to apoB. That the youth aren’t spared from progressing with this disease, means you won’t be spared even if your body was returned to a youthful state. Even if you increased your time you could have, your age, the disease would still progress based on the amount of atherogenic particles and your age, eventually reaching the threshold for ASCVD (6).

m_ehab532f1

How to lower apoB

You can discuss that here, what you are doing to lower it, what your apoB is, and discuss about apoB in general. If you find any new studies about apoB feel free to post it here. Genetic or mendelian randomization studies are especially valuable and clinical trials.

(1) Cardiovascular diseases - WHO, 2024.
(2) Apolipoprotein B vs Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol and Non–High-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol as the Primary Measure of Apolipoprotein B Lipoprotein-Related Risk: The Debate Is Over | Acute Coronary Syndromes | JAMA Cardiology | JAMA Network - Sniderman, 2022.
(3) Cumulative effects of LDL-C reduction in mitigating cardiovascular risk - Peter Attia - Attia, 2022.
(4) https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666756821000866 - Richardson et al., 2021.
(5) Dose-Response Associations of Lipids With CAD and Mortality - Yang et al., 2024.
(6) How to live to 100 before developing clinical coronary artery disease: a suggestion | European Heart Journal | Oxford Academic - Braunwald, 2021.

18 Likes

LDL and apoB discordance -

1 Like

Yes, there can be wide discrepancy between apoB and LDL so why it’s important to measure both. I wouldn’t count out LDL totally, though, if apoB is good but LDL isn’t – there are reason to believe that particle size (non-HDL-c), can in of itself be harmful too, of course maybe not to the same extent.

1 Like

59 year old male.

Had my blood work done and while my age shows, minus 8.5 years of real age (not sure I believe it, but I’ll take as a feel-good thing for couple minutes lol) there are couple of areas that it seems I need to address: High LDL 124 and low HDL at 38 (double whammy), though my APo-B 89 bit high but within normal. My Anion Gap =15 was also high and think this might be because I’ve had very bad acid reflex since I started GLP1’s about 9 months ago.

Your latest biological age is 8.55 years younger than your actual age. This measurement attempts to estimate mortality risk relative to your actual age using your biomarkers

Nov 22, 2025

Lp(a)=13.76nmol/dl - Optimal
ApoB=89.00mg/dL-Normal
Non-HDL Cholesterol-135.00mg/dL-Poor
LDL-Cholesterol=124.00mg/dL-Poor
HDL-Cholesterol=38.00mg/dL-Poor
Triglycerides=55.00mg/dL-Optimal
Total Cholesterol=173.00mg/dL-In Range

Anion Gap =15- Out Range

Total Testosterone =523-normal
Free testosterone= 78-normal
Estradiol (E2) =14.8-normal
PSA= 0.80-normal
SHBG=58-normal

Have couple questions if someone would be kind enough to chime in:

  1. I’ve got Ezetimibe 10mg tablets, Rosuvastatin 20mg tablets and Pivastatin 1mg tablets. I’m thinking of starting with Pita 1mg, and Ezetimibe 5mg (cut tablet in 1/2), or should I start with Rosuva 5mg and ezetimibe? any suggestions?

  2. Is there anything I can do/take to lower my Anion gap? I must say that since I started LDN (again 5 days ago) at 3mg the acid reflux has reduced by about 80%, but not sure if acid reflux has anything to do with high Anion gap?

  3. What do you guys think of free T at 78 and E2 at 14 with total T at 520?

All other markers (about 60) were either optimal or normal.

I am healthy other than sleep issues (wake up at 3 and hard time sleeping though LDN has helped a bit) plus I feel tired since I started GLP1/Tirzepatide about 9 months ago. Have lost about 25lbs on it.
I’m on 3IU GH 5 days a week, and metformin 500mg a day. Used to do Rapa at 5mg weekly but I stopped it a while back. I do intend to start it again, but I want to bring the blood markers to normal first.
Thanks,

LDL-C of 124mg/dl IMO needs to be dealt with quickly. I don’t see what’s wrong with 10mg Rosu and 10mg Ezetimibe. See how that works, and then maybe experiment with taking 5mg doses if you feel the need to use lower doses.

Since it’s the ApoB thread, 89mg/dl isn’t great. It might be “normal” but it’s certainly not optimal.

Have you ever had a calcium score, CTCA etc?

Testosterone looks fine and good for your age. The numbers themselves don’t mean a huge amount and how you feel is more important IMO. Mine is only ever around 350-400ng/dl, and I’m 20 years younger than you, but I feel fine, have no problem putting on muscle etc. It’s highly individual.

2 Likes

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I don’t mind starting at 10MG Rosu and 10mg EZe but I hear horror stories about statins all over web. I’m not against myself, but I find it that people are almost religious against taking statins. For as little as I understand I think statins are just fine since they have been in the market for relatively a long time and their safety profile seems ok, but I have no clue why such backlash from the anecdotal crowd.

One question on statins though, my understanding is that you have to take them for life (or very long time) since if you stop them the lipid markers seems to go back in the wrong direction.

No, I haven’t had a calcium score done but I am planning on having one in next 6 months or so.

As far as how I feel in general, I actually feel excellent (other than a bit tired since I started Tirze) and my sexual prowess is as good as when I was in my 20’s lol but while my Testosterone level was all in the normal range, I would prefer them a bit higher. Total T in the 700’s and the free T in the 100’s. I’m not sure if it would mean anything health wise, but I guess it is just a manly thing LOL to have it in the higher range.

One thing I forgot to mention my Vitamin d level was pretty high at 92 and in one of the lab sections it shows it as too high/toxic if over 80, and then in other places they call it normal under 100, though my understanding is that the optimal range to be 60-80. Funny thing is I used to take Vit D daily, but I haven’t taken any in last 6 months to a year and I was surprised to see it that high (first time I ever measured it through and don’t have a base line). I rarely if ever get sick (flu, cold etc) and I think I read somewhere that people that have naturally high Vit D level have a very robust immune system, maybe that’s the reason I don’t get sick.

FYI: Atorvastatin probably has a lower risk of diabetes and cataract surgery than rosuvastatin: Rosuvastatin versus atorvastatin treatment in adults with coronary artery disease: secondary analysis of the randomised LODESTAR trial (2023)

1 Like

Thanks for the suggestion. I don’t have Atorvastatin at moment, but I’ll make sure to order it next time I place an order.

I moved from Atorvastatin to Pitavastatin, for lower risk of blood glucose disregulation (I’m working to get my A1C down below 5.0).

I think Pitavastatin has the best profile for glucose (and I’m also taking ezetimibe and bempadoic acid) - so I’m less concerned about my APOB now (around 45) and more concerned about blood sugar.

https://www.marleydrug.com/statins-and-blood-sugar?srsltid=AfmBOorCTphcKDwH1jstPTW_H5wMCmnxiSD71KXwY2VcQVA6miPFeKqp

1 Like

thanks for the suggestion and actually I have a bit of an issue with glucose also which is in mid 90’s. and my A1C is at 5.2 and would like it to be under 5 also.

So, I think for now I’ll actually start with Pita and Ezetimibe (have them both in stock) and see how it goes for a month or two and redo my blood work. then I can adjust/switch if need be.

1 Like

Statins have nothing to do with cataract formation.
Statin Use and the Risk of Cataracts: A Systematic Review and Meta‐Analysis | Journal of the American Heart Association
“Based on the present meta‐analysis of these studies, we could only conclude that there is no clear evidence showing that statin use increases the risk of cataracts. The most likely case is that there is no association between statin use and cataracts. Because of the considerable benefits of statins in cardiovascular patients, this issue should not deter their use.”

1 Like

Here’s the discussion about this result in the LODESTAR trial:

In this study, the incidence of cataract surgery differed according to statin type. Although statins’ antioxidant and anti-inflammatory effects on the lens are expected to slow the aging process of the lens nucleus and epithelium, a concern has been that statin treatment could increase the risk of cataracts based on the hypothesis that statins inhibit proper epithelial cell development within the crystalline lens, where cholesterol biosynthesis is critical to maintain transparency and structure of the lens.931 A possible association between statin treatment and cataracts was shown in previous studies.3233 In this study, 1.9% of patients underwent cataract surgery during the median follow-up of 3.0 years, which is in line with the findings of the HOPE (Heart Outcomes Prevention Evaluation)-3 trial, which showed that 3.8% of patients receiving statin treatment underwent cataract surgery during a median follow-up of 5.6 years.33 Consistently, compared with atorvastatin, the incidence of cataract surgery with rosuvastatin was 1.0% higher. The greater LDL cholesterol lowering capacity of rosuvastatin might have prevented epithelial cell development within the crystalline lens. Therefore, when using rosuvastatin over atorvastatin as a statin regimen in people with coronary artery disease, a greater reduction in LDL cholesterol levels can be expected; however, meticulous monitoring and appropriate lifestyle interventions should be considered to mitigate the risk of new onset diabetes mellitus or cataracts. To determine whether the increase in new onset diabetes mellitus and cataract surgery is directly related to the statin treatment, the underpinning mechanism for these relations and the possible mechanism for a drug effect still require further investigations.

https://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj-2023-075837

So statins increases the risk of diabetes and cataract surgery. That’s concurrent with the powerful reductions in stroke, heart disease, and some mortality reductions. Nothing is an all-cure panacea with no possible side effects. But Type 2 Diabetes can be monitored and reversed in general. I remember from the past Peter Attia used to have his patients use CGM’s before and after statin initiation to see how glucose changed. I don’t know if that’s the case anymore. You want to monitor liver values for about a year every now and then and stop or change treatment if muscle side effects (e.g measure CK) or elevated enzymes, too, roughly. I can’t think of much else.

Here’s a video how Gil Carvalho traversed all of this:

1 Like