Bryan Johnson uses the cream version, I think that might be easier then creating the sublingual. Does anyone have any good sources on how to get this ? I’ve had some chinese suppliers try and sell me some ranging from 10 grams for 110USD to 5 grams for 510USD however I think it is kind of a gamble on the qaulity.
Yes - the Chinese chemical supplier middlemen (of which 99% are - just middlemen) are extremely untrustworthy. The raw powder is hard to get unless you have a friend who works in an academic lab or small commercial lab. The easiest is just to buy the hair product from Europe (where its easily ordered) and apply it topically.
Details here: Alfatradiol - Wikipedia
Just search on Google Shopping for Alfatradiol, or “Ell Cranell”, see example result below:
I saw on a trt forum a guy was talking about using DMSO instead of transcutol for the trt cream. Usually bioavailiblity of the trt cream is around 10% similar to what you’re saying however with the DMSO it can reach up to 95%. This might be worth looking into. I asked chat gpt for some suggestions and it said 70% DMSO/30% water or aloe. Also to use isopropyl alchol before aplication to clear any particles because it is very effective transdermal absorbtion and you don’t want anything else to be absorbed besides the 17a.
I would urge caution when using DMSO, since it causes long term changes in skin permeability, so even hours later if you accidentally spill something toxic on your skin, it will pass through the skin.
Yes - I second that word of caution…
I think DMSO is a little more aggressive in terms of its results than most skin companies want… here is a quote from a cosmetic dermatology textbook:
Another solvent, dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), by contrast, is relatively aggressive and induces significant structural perturbations such as keratin denaturation and the solubilization of membrane components
See full info and quote in this post: Rapamycin for Hair Growth and Hair Pigmentation - #320 by RapAdmin
Im not into this topic but last time I had a look, it seems that nobody was realising that there are already 2 supplements on the market that contains E17A.
Both are used for alopecia (topical treatment).
but the ingredients are nothing special and non-toxic if swallowed. In fact they are in other products as well.
Other names for E17A are:
minoxidil (a little bit modified, I would prefer a non-altered version if I would use it)
So if one is curious becoming a labratory mouse, bon appetit.
Thank you for linking this thread I see now people are using much lower concentrations like 20% DMSO then the 70% I intended do use. I will proceed with caution.
What if i get 17-a-e powder and mix it in transcutol, and apply it transdermal? Would it practically be the same as mixing transcutol with pantostin?
Yes, it should work even better, if it’s pure. But please be careful as you don’t want to be dosing 17-beta estradiol.
Oh sorry, I forgot to say “ welcome to the forum"
Hope you find it as welcoming and informative as i have
Yes - that is a reasonable approach. The issue is its hard to get 17ae unless you work in a lab, or have a friend that works in a lab and can get it for you (order it from a lab supply house).
Sorry, I should have pointed that out. My comment about purity was based on an assumption that # Fan would be ordering from India or China, chemical companies wouldn’t/shouldn’t have that issue.
It’s a shame private individuals can’t order from chemical companies, I’ve got a list a mile long.
Oh - you are completely right about sourcing from China. We have a member here who did that and had a terrible reaction from it. You can’t trust Chinese companies for this type of product, there will likely be a lot of impurities. Also, as mentioned, another important risk is, since its always manufactured with 17 Beta estradiol (the version that women use for hormone replacement) you need to make sure you aren’t getting much of this, or a male will become feminized.
I’ve got two bottles of Pantostin sitting on my shelf that I’m going to extract the 17-alpha estradiol from.
I just haven’t got round to it, it should be relatively easy (famous last words) to extract 17-alpha from the isopropyl alcohol.
I’ll do a post, when I do it, it doesn’t require a lot of chemicals or equipment.
I have ell cranell is the proccess the same for that ? And would the conversion be into a powder we can take sublingually ? It is a bit tedious to rub it in to my forearm everyday and I think with sublingual dosing the bioavailability and convenience will be improved.
Hi thanks for the welcome! I’ve been into longevity research for a while now. It’s the first time I found a forum community and it’s given me much needed practical insights.
Actually I have to say I’m from China and I did in fact order 17 alpha estradiol from a Chinese research chemical company. I got it tested in a third party testing company and the result came back 99%+ purity. The price was around 500 euros for 10 grams. I took 17ae orally for more than half a year. But because I miscalculated the dosage from the ITP research on mice, I was taking something like 50mg to 100mg per day. It’s only recently I learned from this post that the correct dosage is actually much lower… Also that it requires solvent for absorption.
I recently moved to Europe and found it much harder to find chemical company to order these research substance from. The regulative environment here is much different from China. I might order from the same company in China again and get it delivered here and try using solvent and then absorb through the skin.
Hi Fan, welcome to the site.
Its very interesting that you’ve taken 17ae for six months at very high dosing levels (50mg to 100mg/day). Can you share any experiences in terms of effects, positive or negative, from your use?
Honestly, I didn’t notice any effect from taking it long term. But again, with all the supplements I take, I never really notice any effect I can observe externally. Same with rapamycin. It’s also possible that since I was taking it orally, the absorption was bad and barely any 17ae got into my system.
When you had the 17ae lab tested, did you specifically get the 17 alpha estradiol percent tested (vs. 17 beta estradiol)? Or were you getting the more generic “estradiol” percent tested?
I ask because estradiol is a chiral molecule, so a left handed and right handed molecule. They are always manufactured together - but as a male, I don’t want to be taking the much more active 17 beta estradiol which would have the effect of feminizing me (not an effect I’m eager for).
Also, did you get any blood tests while you were taking it? Did you check your hormone levels - testosterone and estradiol levels?
Yes, I did specifically test the content of 17ae, told them the full substance name with CAS number. And the report came back with the percentage of testing of 17ae and with its CAS number specifically too. I have to say, in defense of the chinese chemical production companies, most well-recognized chinese companies in the field(such as Macklin) do provide research chemicals with tight quality. I have also ordered rapamycin before, and got them tested, and the result also came back 99%+ purity. Also China is a big exporter in chemicals and supplements, and I heard that many supplement brands in the west simply import their stuff from China because of cost savings. But China is a big market, and regulations are not as tight as in the west, so a large number of dodgy companies will end up in the mix.
I never did any blood test. But thanks to god, I did not notice any feminizing effect. My pecs remain pecs. Did not notice any change in sex drive or daily function either.