Very curious what cream these folks are using.
A reference on creams/gels used for TRT delivery topical.
Lipoderm transdermal cream is listed as containing water , glycerin, C12-15 alkyl benzoate, glyceryl stearate, dimethicone, cetearyl alcohol, cetearyl glucoside, polyacrylamide, cetyl alcohol, magnesium aluminum silicate, xanthan gum, aloe vera, tocopheryl acetate, bitter almond oil, grapeseed extract, wheat germ oil
Comparing an oral dose to a transdermal dose can be misleading due to the speed of processing. For example, testosterone injections at 100mg IM per week ( common dose ) vs. testosterone lipoderm base 100mg applied twice a day per week are not comparable in blood levels. Injections usually create peaks and valleys and creams applied twice a day less variations. Pellets are comparable to creams. Rapamycin creams would create a total differnt pharmacokinetic curve of levels vs. oral especially if our goal is to create pulse dosing to avoid mTOR2 blockage. For me this complicates thing too much for the progress that has been made with current success with oral dosing, but if more data comes in support of transdermal or injections, I would consider that options seriously.
David wrote, “For example, testosterone injections at 100mg IM per week ( common dose ) vs. testosterone lipoderm base 100mg applied twice a day per week are not comparable in blood levels.”
You bring up a good point but that might not be the best example. “Depot injections” are formulated to release medications slowly over an extended period. And transdermal patches are designed to do this as well. For example, the daily Emsam patch for Deprenyl (another drug shown to extend lifespan in multiple species). So you’re comparing an extended-release form to an immediate release form.
But a transdermal gel or cream of this type is most often intended for quick absorption to be a comparable alternative to an immediate release oral medication even if the plasma concentration-time profiles aren’t exactly the same. These gels are more common in veterinary medicine since dogs and cats may still smell a drug in food after it’s mixed and refuse to eat. This page gives a little information.
I appreciate your perspective, but testosterone shots are not depot shots. Your example of a depot shot would be better for a depot provera shot for birth control over 3 months or depot lupron both used for slow release over several months. Most testosterone injections peak in about 3 days with a half life of about a week. My point was when asked what dose of Rapamycin cream was used is that that creams and injections (not necessarily depot injections or slow release) are not equal. A daily testosterone injection for men would be about 20mg daily vs. a 200mg daily cream application ( 100mg twice a day ). So a 6mg oral Rapamycin dose weekly is not comparable to an equal cream dose. Just trying to demonstrate apples to apples don’t work when you change your route of administration.
100%. I’ve been studying IV, vs oral vs intramuscular Vs intranasal. Very different pharmacokinetics based on mode and for same dose.
My questions about the cream are not related to dosing equivalency, but the nature of the cream itself. We know what solubilizes rapamcyin, and some have “potential” toxicity issues. So what cream are they using to get rapamcyin through the skin and into the system? Is this cream known to enter systemic circulation?
But also of course curious, what applied dose generated the blood signal? Do they have high dose data re blood levels and side effects?
“I appreciate your perspective, but testosterone shots are not depot shots.”
Well, not all of it is. Testosterone cypionate is, and is administered every one to four weeks.
My apologies and you are correct that Testosterone cypionate is considered a depo form. In clinical practice I don’t consider it the same as the other longer acting I mentioned because of half life being about 7-8 days. An error most Rx’ing physicians do is rx it every 3-4 weeks which create symptomatic peaks and valleys where as taking it at least weekly helps avoid that and twice a week seems even better for many (male) patients.
I messaged Rapamycin.store for more specifics on this transdermal cream. Will share if I get a reply.
All great questions. A pharmacist could probably answer the questions of what type of creams are used for systemic purposes vs. ones that have minimal to no systemic absorption. Testosterone cream, estrogen patches and even phernergan gels have all been used successfully to achieve therapeutic blood levels. Over the counter progesterone cream with a base of olive oil will not be able to reach significant therapeutic levels and more likely would only have skin surface value if any. The size of the molecule has a lot to do with whether it can be used in a cream…insulin is too big to be absorbed through the skin, intranasal and orally - still has to be delivered by injection. @DrRoss may help explain the lipoderms and DMSO bases vs ones that will not enter the blood stream.
Long lasting approaches, pellets, depot (long acting) shots and daily dosing seem counter intuitive to the attempt to avoid mTOR 2 inhibition, but the IV, creams and intranasal. Let me know if you find any other information on other routes that appear to give good levels, but more importantly improved health span metrics.
If it helps, contacted them a while ago with the question what carrier they were using:
Water, isopropyl palmitate, lecithin, carbomer, ethanol, potassium chloride, amino-2-methyl-2-propanol-1, vitamin E acetate, 2-bromo-2-nitro-propane-1, 3-diol.
I looked up the ingredients in the transdermal cream in the Environmental Working Group’s “skindeep” database. They look pretty benign except for 2-bromo-2-nitropropane-1,3-diol, which is called a “formaldehyde releaser”. The site
says “2-Bromo-2-nitropropane-1,3-diol is an antimicrobial preservative that works by forming formaldehyde in cosmetic products. People exposed to such formaldehyde-releasing ingredients may develop a formaldehyde allergy or an allergy to the ingredient itself.”
Btw, I never received any reply from rapamycin.store on their transdermal cream.
I wanted you all to know that I was scammed out of $250 of bitcoin by Rapamycin Buyers Group AKA Rapamycin.store. THIS WEBSITE IS FRAUDULENT. I placed an order in February 2023, no product, no correspondence, no response to multiple message. Very disappointing; I hope that this post prevents others from being scammed- BEWARE!
Thank you for letting us know. Can we place them on a common blacklist?
That’s really sad news. Where did you find the website Rapamycin.store? I haven’t heard of this seller before. Why did you choose to buy from this seller?