Video Interview - Nitric Oxide and Functional Health - with Dr. Nathan Bryan

A video worth watching , making notes and applying the information

David Perlmutter MD interviewing Dr. Nathan Bryan original aired June 12, 2023

Summary Added by RapAdmin:

I. Executive Summary

Nitric oxide (NO) is a transient, gaseous signaling autacoid with a half-life of under one second, serving as the master regulator of vascular tone, endothelial integrity, platelet quiescence, microvascular perfusion, neurotransmission, and cellular immune response. Mammalian physiology synthesizes NO through two distinct pathways: the canonical, oxygen-dependent endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) pathway (which oxidizes L-arginine to L-citrulline in the presence of essential cofactors such as tetrahydrobiopterin [BH4]), and the oxygen-independent enterosalivary nitrate-nitrite-NO pathway. Because mammalian tissues lack functional nitrate reductase enzymes, systemic NO generation from dietary inorganic nitrate (NO3-) is completely dependent on symbiotic oral facultative anaerobes located primarily on the dorsal tongue. These commensal bacteria reduce salivary NO3- to nitrite (NO2-), which upon entering the acidic gastric environment (pH < 2.0) or hypoxic peripheral microvasculature is converted into bioactive NO gas and related reactive nitrogen species.

The primary clinical thesis posits that modern lifestyle practices—specifically the widespread usage of antiseptic chlorhexidine mouthwashes, systemic fluoridation, and chronic gastric acid suppression with proton pump inhibitors (PPIs)—induce severe iatrogenic NO deficiency. This deficiency manifests systemically as resistant hypertension, accelerated atherosclerosis, insulin resistance, erectile dysfunction, and neurodegenerative decline.

Furthermore, the interview presents critical caveats regarding therapeutic interventions. Most notably, standard L-arginine supplementation is contraindicated in patients with established endothelial dysfunction; uncoupled eNOS (secondary to BH4 oxidation) diverts electron flux toward molecular oxygen, accelerating toxic superoxide and peroxynitrite formation rather than NO synthesis. While the biochemical framework surrounding the enterosalivary axis and the hazards of L-arginine in uncoupled vascular states are strongly supported by randomized clinical trials, several claims—such as the severity of PPI-mediated dimethylarginine dimethylaminohydrolase (DDAH) inhibition at clinical concentrations, the direct role of MTHFR in biopterin reduction, and broad assertions regarding fluoride-induced endocrine disruption—contain significant translational gaps, biochemical misattributions, or lack rigorous human trial validation.

II. Insight Bullets

  1. Paracrine Gas Kinetics: Nitric oxide is an autacoid gas with an in vivo half-life of less than one second, exerting its biological effects locally via second messenger activation before undergoing rapid oxidation into nitrite and nitrate.
  2. Dual Biosynthetic Pathways: Mammals generate NO through two independent systems: the endogenous L-arginine-eNOS pathway and the dietary enterosalivary nitrate-nitrite-NO pathway.
  3. Obligate Microbial Symbiosis: Mammals lack functional nitrate reductase genes; reduction of dietary inorganic nitrate (NO3-) to bioactive nitrite (NO2-) relies entirely on commensal oral facultative anaerobes (such as Veillonella, Actinomyces, and Rothia species).
  4. Enterosalivary Recirculation: Approximately 25% of systemic circulating inorganic nitrate is actively extracted by the salivary glands, concentrating in saliva up to 10-fold relative to plasma before oral bacterial reduction.
  5. Gastric Acid-Catalyzed Reduction: Swallowed salivary nitrite undergoes non-enzymatic disproportionation in the acidic lumen of the stomach (pH < 2.0), generating NO gas that preserves mucosal barrier integrity and modulates gastric motility.
  6. Iatrogenic Oral Dysbiosis: The use of antiseptic chlorhexidine or cetylpyridinium chloride mouthwashes eradicates nitrate-reducing oral flora, significantly lowering circulating plasma nitrite levels.
  7. Blood Pressure Elevation Post-Antisepsis: Disruption of oral microflora via chronic antiseptic mouthwash use increases systolic blood pressure by 2 to 5 mmHg in both normotensive and hypertensive individuals.
  8. Loss of Exercise-Induced Hypotension: Antiseptic mouthwash rinses immediately post-exercise abolish the sustained post-exercise hypotensive (PEH) response and blunt exercise-induced vascular compliance gains.
  9. Age-Dependent eNOS Decay: Endothelial NOS activity declines at an estimated rate of 10% to 12% per decade of life, leading to an approximate 50% loss of eNOS-derived NO production by age 40 to 50.
  10. Dietary Pathway Resilience: Unlike eNOS enzyme kinetics, the enterosalivary nitrate-nitrite-NO pathway does not exhibit intrinsic age-related enzymatic decay, provided the oral microbiome and dietary intake remain intact.
  11. The L-Arginine Supplementation Paradox: Supplementing free L-arginine in individuals with uncoupled eNOS does not enhance NO production; it exacerbates oxidative stress via uncoupled electron leakage.
  12. Cardiovascular Safety Warning for L-Arginine: In patients with established vascular disease or prior myocardial infarction, high-dose L-arginine supplementation increases mortality and adverse cardiac events (VINTAGE MI trial).
  13. Peripheral Artery Disease Exacerbation: Clinical RCT data in peripheral arterial disease (PAD) demonstrate that chronic L-arginine supplementation fails to improve and may worsen intermittent claudication and endothelial reactivity.
  14. Molecular Mechanism of eNOS Uncoupling: Depletion or oxidation of tetrahydrobiopterin (BH4) to dihydrobiopterin (BH2) uncouples the eNOS homodimer, shifting the enzyme from generating NO to generating superoxide (O2•-).
  15. Peroxynitrite Cytotoxicity: The rapid, diffusion-controlled reaction between NO and superoxide generates peroxynitrite (ONOO-), an aggressive oxidant that irreversibly nitrates tyrosine residues and inactivates prostacyclin synthase.
  16. Dietary Nitrate Distribution: Over 80% to 85% of human dietary inorganic nitrate intake originates from green leafy vegetables and root vegetables; cured and processed meats contribute less than 5%.
  17. DASH Diet Mechanism: The robust blood pressure-lowering and cardioprotective efficacy of the Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension (DASH) diet is largely driven by its high inorganic nitrate content.
  18. Hypoxia-Driven Nitrite Reduction: While eNOS is strictly oxygen-dependent (requiring molecular O2 for the 5-electron oxidation of L-arginine), nitrite reduction to NO is markedly enhanced under hypoxic and acidic conditions by deoxygenated hemoglobin, myoglobin, and xanthine oxidoreductase.
  19. Metabolic Nitrate Buffering in Muscle: Skeletal muscle stores inorganic nitrate and, during high-intensity anaerobic exercise, reduces it to nitrite and NO, enhancing mitochondrial ATP efficiency and postponing fatigue.
  20. Proton Pump Inhibitor Interference: PPIs impair the enterosalivary axis by neutralizing gastric acidity required for non-enzymatic nitrite protonation into NO in the stomach.
  21. The PPI-DDAH Hypothesis: Pre-clinical data indicate that PPIs can directly inhibit dimethylarginine dimethylaminohydrolase (DDAH), elevating systemic levels of the endogenous eNOS inhibitor asymmetric dimethylarginine (ADMA).
  22. Translational Limits of PPI-ADMA Interactions: Clinical human pharmacology demonstrates that therapeutic circulating concentrations of PPIs are generally insufficient to significantly alter plasma ADMA or blunt flow-mediated dilation.
  23. Erectile Dysfunction as a Microvascular Sentinel: Because penile and clitoral erectile responses are strictly NO- and cGMP-dependent, erectile dysfunction serves as an early clinical canary in the coal mine for systemic endothelial decay.
  24. PDE5 Inhibitor Pharmacodynamics: Phosphodiesterase type 5 (PDE5) inhibitors (e.g., sildenafil, tadalafil) do not generate NO; they prevent the enzymatic degradation of cyclic GMP (cGMP) downstream of soluble guanylyl cyclase (sGC) activation.
  25. Mechanisms of PDE5 Inhibitor Resistance: The 40% to 50% non-response rate observed with PDE5 inhibitors is mechanistically caused by absolute endogenous NO deficiency failing to stimulate baseline sGC/cGMP synthesis.
  26. Neurovascular Perfusion and Dementia: Sildenafil and NO donors improve cerebral microvascular perfusion in observational paradigms, theoretically reducing hypoperfusion-induced amyloid and tau accumulation.
  27. Biochemical Correction on MTHFR: MTHFR catalyzes the reduction of 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate to 5-methyltetrahydrofolate in the one-carbon cycle; it does not directly reduce oxidized biopterin to BH4 (which is catalyzed by DHFR, SPR, and GCH1).
  28. Hyperhomocysteinemia and Endothelial Stress: MTHFR C677T polymorphisms induce vascular pathology primarily through elevated homocysteine, which triggers intracellular oxidative stress that secondarily oxidizes BH4 to BH2.
  29. Mastication Dynamics: Thorough mechanical mastication of fibrous vegetables increases the oral residence time and surface contact necessary for bacterial reduction of nitrate to nitrite.
  30. Topical NO Pharmacology in Wound Repair: Exogenous gaseous NO applied topically to ischemic, chronic diabetic ulcers promotes wound closure by stimulating microvascular angiogenesis and exerting broad-spectrum antimicrobial activity.
  31. Hyperbaric Oxygen and NO Interplay: Hyperbaric oxygen therapy accelerates tissue granulation partly by upregulating eNOS expression and mobilizing CD34+ bone marrow-derived endothelial progenitor cells.
  32. Limitations of Organic Nitrates: Unlike inorganic dietary nitrates, organic nitrates (such as nitroglycerin and isosorbide dinitrate) rapidly induce hemodynamic tolerance, mitochondrial aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH-2) inactivation, and endothelial oxidative stress upon continuous exposure.
  33. Diagnostic Limitations of Salivary Strips: Salivary nitrite test strips proxy the activity of the oral enterosalivary microbiome and recent dietary intake, but do not provide direct quantitative measurement of endothelial eNOS flux or systemic microvascular resistance.

III. Adversarial Claims & Evidence Table

Claim from Video Speaker’s Evidence Scientific Reality (Current Data) Evidence Grade (A–E) Verdict
Antiseptic mouthwash raises blood pressure and abolishes exercise-induced vascular benefits. Cited Bryan et al. papers and oral microbiome disruption studies. Verified. Chlorhexidine mouthwash eradicates oral nitrate-reducing bacteria, diminishes plasma nitrite by ~20–25%, increases systolic blood pressure by 2–5 mmHg, and blunts post-exercise hypotension (Kapil et al., 2013; Cutler et al., 2019). Level B(Human RCTs & Crossover Trials) Strong Support
L-Arginine supplementation is dangerous and contraindicated in uncoupled endothelial states (post-MI / PAD). Cited the 2006 post-MI trial and clinical peripheral artery disease data. Verified. In uncoupled eNOS states, L-arginine drives superoxide formation. The VINTAGE MI trial was stopped early due to excess deaths in the L-arginine arm (Schulman et al., 2006). In PAD, L-arginine failed to improve walking distance and worsened vascular reactivity (Wilson et al., 2007). Level B(Human RCTs) Strong Support
Dietary inorganic nitrate from green vegetables significantly lowers systemic blood pressure and improves endothelial function. Cited the DASH diet study (Bryan et al., 2009). Verified. Meta-analyses of RCTs confirm that inorganic nitrate and beetroot juice significantly decrease systolic blood pressure (~2.4 to 4.5 mmHg) and improve flow-mediated dilation (Siervo et al., 2016; Wang et al., 2023). Level A(Human Meta-analyses / Systematic Reviews) Strong Support
Proton Pump Inhibitors (PPIs) cause cardiovascular events by directly inhibiting DDAH and elevating ADMA. Cited in vitro/animal work by John Cooke (Houston Methodist). Preclinical in vitro work showed DDAH inhibition (Ghebremariam et al., 2013), but human clinical studies show that therapeutic concentrations (0.1–10 µM) do not alter plasma ADMA or impair flow-mediated dilation (Bassan et al., 2017; Sibilski et al., 2016). Level D (Pre-clinical) vs. Level C(Human Cohort) Translational Gap / Speculative
MTHFR directly reduces oxidized biopterin to BH4; MTHFR mutations directly cause BH4 deficiency. Mechanistic assertions regarding folate cycle and biopterin coupling. Biochemical misattribution. BH4 is synthesized de novo by GCH1 and salvaged by dihydrofolate reductase (DHFR) and sepiapterin reductase, not MTHFR. MTHFR dysfunction elevates homocysteine, which secondarily induces oxidative stress that oxidizes BH4 to BH2 ([Source unverified in live search for direct MTHFR biopterin reduction]). Level E(Biochemical Misattribution) Unsupported
PDE5 inhibitors (sildenafil) reduce the clinical risk of Alzheimer’s disease and dementia. Cited large pharmacoepidemiological retrospective dataset. Pharmacoepidemiological analysis of 7.23M patients showed a 69% lower risk (Fang et al., 2021), but subsequent large Medicare and insurance cohort analyses (Desai et al., 2022) demonstrated that the association was heavily confounded by indication, showing no protective effect. RCT confirmation is absent. Level C(Human Observational / Cohort Studies) Speculative
Fluoride in standard toothpaste and municipal tap water acts as a neurotoxin and destroys thyroid function. General assertions regarding fluoride toxicity. Systematic reviews show no consistent evidence of thyroid disruption or clinical neurotoxicity at standard municipal water fluoridation concentrations (~0.7 mg/L) or with standard dentifrice use; toxicity is confined to areas with severe endemic fluorosis (>1.5–4.0 mg/L) (Menezes et al., 2024). Level A(Systematic Review) Unsupported / Hype
Salivary nitrite test strips accurately quantify systemic total-body nitric oxide bioavailability. Cited 2010 proprietary diagnostic invention. Salivary nitrite strips reflect oral bacterial nitrate reductase activity and recent dietary nitrate intake. They do not correlate accurately with systemic eNOS flux, microvascular resistance, or coronary endothelial function ([Source unverified in live search as an FDA-validated clinical biomarker]). Level E(Commercial Assertion / Unvalidated Diagnostic) Speculative

IV. Actionable Protocol (Prioritized)

High Confidence Tier (Backed by Level A/B Evidence)

  • Eliminate Antiseptic Mouthwash Usage: Discontinue twice-daily use of broad-spectrum antiseptic oral rinses (specifically chlorhexidine and strong alcohol- or cetylpyridinium-based formulations) unless acutely indicated for short-term periodontal surgery. This preserves the oral commensal flora necessary for baseline enterosalivary NO synthesis and post-exercise blood pressure regulation.
  • Increase Dietary Inorganic Nitrate Intake: Consume 300–500 mg/day of dietary inorganic nitrate via natural, whole-food sources (e.g., 200–250 g of arugula, raw spinach, Swiss chard, or standardized beetroot extracts). This delivers substrate for the enterosalivary pathway, proven to lower systolic blood pressure and enhance endothelial flow-mediated dilation.
  • Avoid L-Arginine Supplementation in Established Cardiovascular Pathology: Cease high-dose exogenous L-arginine supplementation in patients with confirmed atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, prior myocardial infarction, or peripheral artery disease to avoid eNOS uncoupling-mediated superoxide and peroxynitrite toxicity.
  • Implement Moderate-Intensity Aerobic and Resistance Exercise: Regular physical training induces shear stress-mediated upregulation of eNOS transcription, preserves systemic endothelial compliance, and enhances skeletal muscle nitrate storage.

Experimental Tier (Level C/D Evidence with High Safety Margins)

  • Mastication Protocols for Whole Vegetables: Ensure thorough mechanical mastication of leafy greens to optimize oral bolus transit time and bacterial enzymatic contact before swallowing.
  • Targeted Deprescribing of Unnecessary Chronic PPIs: Re-evaluate chronic proton pump inhibitor use in collaboration with a gastroenterologist; taper to H2-receptor antagonists or lifestyle interventions when GERD is mild, thereby preserving gastric acidity for acid-catalyzed nitrite reduction.
  • Adjunctive Topical NO for Non-Healing Ischemic Ulcers: Consider FDA-regulated or clinically trialed topical nitric oxide formulations for refractory diabetic foot ulcers and chronic ischemic wounds under direct physician supervision.
  • Moderate Natural UV-A / Sunlight Exposure: Brief exposure of skin to sunlight/UV-A mobilizes cutaneous photo-labile S-nitrosothiols and nitrite stores into the systemic circulation, inducing mild systemic vasodilation.
7 Likes

Another crazy person that thinks something besides LDL cholesterol could cause heart disease.

4 Likes

Dr Bryan would be proud of my success in getting nitrites into my saliva. My BP has also trended down while I’ve been working on my NO. I posted a presentation of his here as well. He’s a NO expert for sure.

‘Fluoride is a neurotoxin…destroys your thyroid.’

Big Teeth on fluoridated water: Fluoridation in Water | American Dental Association

CDC: ‘One of the ten great public health achievements of the twentieth century.’

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4850bx.htm

LOL. LMFAO, even.

2 Likes

“There are two ways to be fooled: one is to believe what is not true, the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

~ Søren Landkildehus

Keep LYFAO

1 Like

Great job misinterpreting my point.

Long introduction. Product plug starts at 45:02. That product is below.

Ingredients -

Vitamin C (from Magnesium Ascorbate) 164 mg
Magnesium (from Magnesium Ascorbate) 12 mg

NO2U Propietary Blend 220 mg
[Magnesium Ascorbate, Sodium Nitrite]

Sodium nitrite can be found in Pink Salt, used to cure meat. But it is a proprietary blend. So we do not know how much is magnesium ascorbate, and how much is sodium nitrite, in the 220 mg.

Description

Developed by Dr. Nathan S. Bryan, the world’s leading expert on Nitric Oxide production, this nitric oxide generating supplement is specially formulated to rapidly help boost production in the body. It works to support the body’s natural Nitric Oxide production and provides a source of N.O. as it is dissolving in the mouth.

Our innovative formula uses an advanced delivery system that provides an exogenous source of nitric oxide that may support the following:

  • Improve Nitric Oxide production.
  • Enhance oxygen and nutrient delivery to cells.
  • Support cardiovascular health.
  • Aid normal heart function.
  • Support healthy blood circulation and blood pressure.
  • Create healthy blood flow to the brain and other organs.
  • Deliver antioxidant support.
  • Support cognitive function and memory.

Increase NO

“Cialis Daily”
Off label use.
Generic tadalafil {Cialis)
90 tablets /2.5mg each, once a day
GoodRx discount card{screenshot below] for Stop & Shop Pharmacy
$16.97(in the North New Jersey area) pay cash/out of pocket
Yes, you would require a prescription.

Does not get much cheaper than $17.00 for 90 days.

I have no financial interest in GoodRx or Stop&Shop.

I am a user of discount cards.

3 Likes

Looking at this I wonder if getting together a dilute solution of sodium nitrite and potassium nitrate (to have a mix of sodium and potassium and because I cannot find potassium nitrite and there is I think an advantage to having the mix) and sipping up to 250mg of the undiluted mix in the diluted form may have merit.

@John_Hemming Two things to look into regarding nitrite consumption. There is a toxic level of nitrite consumption (1 tblspn = death), and nitrite has a very short half-life (minutes). These points were raised by Beth Shirley in my podcast on NO. That said, I see that the NO booster supplements do contain a small amount of nitrite.

1 Like

FWIW

potassium and or sodium nitrate?

Review the following;

Its an interesting question. It obviously needs some detailed study as indeed 10g is a fatal dose of sodium nitrite, however Dr Nathan Bryan’s NO supplement includes possibly as much as 200mg of Na Nitrite.

I will find some time to research this. However, if the relevant bacteria are in saliva adding a bit of nitrite and possibly nitrate to saliva may achieve the objective. It will take a bit of reading up on.

1 Like

That is an interesting article as well. It explains why Vitamin C is added to the Sodium Nitrite in the pills to avoid the creation of nitrosamines. Hence if we are to go down this route we should have a small amount of Vitamin C as well. The key question is the balance between Nitrite and Ascorbate.

It should be a very inexpensive supp.

As he works for the University of Texas at Austin, they hold/own the patent he developed. He is licensing the compound to market. This is what IP gives the end user. Too many people/entities looking to make a profit, recover cost, you the end user pays.

$80.00 for 60 Lozenge is way too expensive.

In my view you can accomplish the increase of systemic NO using off label “drugs” / other compounds for much less cost. I mentioned tadalafil {Cialis) as one, you could use nitroglycerin {which is also inexpensive with a discount card]. On the nature side fresh squeezed beet juice and or kale.

Most people just would like to take a pill,

I found this an interesting paper.

I am looking for papers not authored by Nathan Bryan that either substantiate his approach or suggest variations. The paper linked had:

2.2. Dietary Nitrate

In addition to the oxidation of NO, nitrite is also derived from meat, vegetables as beetroot, lettuce, spinach, and drinking water that represent high natural dietary sources of inorganic nitrate (NO3). After being ingested, nitrate returns to the oral cavity through the blood circulation and reaches the salivary glands; finally, it is reduced to nitrite by the oral microflora

This is interesting simply because it makes the point that the simple pass through the mouth for NO precursors is probably one of the least important steps. It is the return via the blood circulation that is key for this.

Hence to me it seems that although a dilute solution of NO2/NO3 plus vitamin C might be useful on a one off basis actually what is much more important is to have the right balance of bacterial in the oral biome.

The two top bacteria for nitrate processing appear to be Prevotella and Veillonella

Other possibilities seem to be: Neisseria, Actinomyces, Fusobacterium, Campylobacter, Leptotrichia, Haemophilus, Rothia and Granulicatela.

This:

However, says:

Analysis using a terminal restriction fragment length polymorphism method and an international comparison suggest that the predominance of the genera Prevotella and Veillonella in the salivary microbiota is attributable to periodontal disease conditions, and that the predominance of the genus Neisseria indicates healthy periodontal conditions.

The question here, of course is whether Prevotella and Veilonella are there to help with periodontal disease or whether they hinder.

The first paper does say:

On the contrary, the daily use of an antiseptic mouthwash and tongue cleaning prevents the reduction of nitrate to nitrite and disrupts the enterosalivary cycle by affecting oral concentrations of commensal reducing bacteria. Therefore, nitrite does not achieve the acidic environment of the gastric cavity thus decreasing the S-nitrosothiols formation.

This

Says:

Preliminary in vitro and clinical evidence show that bacteria normally associated with disease, such as Veillonella (caries) and Prevotella (periodontal diseases and halitosis), decrease in the presence of nitrate.

So this seems to go for the balance of avoiding those two.

Neisseria also appears to be a pathogen.

GPT4 says:

The process of nitrate reduction in the oral cavity is facilitated by a group of bacteria that fall under the umbrella of “oral nitrate-reducing bacteria.” These bacteria are an integral part of the oral microbiota and can impact our health by contributing to cardiovascular health through nitric oxide (NO) generation.

Here are some of the oral bacteria associated with nitrate reduction:

  1. Veillonella species: This group of bacteria is often identified as a significant nitrate-reducing species in the oral microbiome. A study by Hyde et al. in 2014 showed that Veillonella atypica was a prominent nitrate reducer.
  2. Rothia species: Rothia species, including Rothia mucilaginosa, have also been found to have nitrate-reducing capabilities.
  3. Neisseria species: Some Neisseria species, like Neisseria flavescens, have been shown to The process of nitrate reduction in the oral cavity is facilitated by a group of bacteria that fall under the umbrella of “oral nitrate-reducing bacteria.” These bacteria are an integral part of the oral microbiota and can impact our health by contributing to cardiovascular health through nitric oxide (NO) generation.
  1. Actinomyces species: Certain Actinomyces species also contribute to the nitrate reduction process in the oral cavity.

These are just a few examples. The oral cavity is home to hundreds of species of bacteria, and it’s likely that many others also have some nitrate-reducing capabilities. It’s important to note that while these bacteria can contribute to overall health, their roles are complex and dependent on a balanced oral microbiome. An overgrowth of certain bacteria, even those with beneficial aspects, can lead to oral health problems such as periodontal disease.

Please consult with a healthcare professional for a more detailed understanding of your oral microbiome.

I will come back to this at a later point, but I think the key to this issue is to know how to improve the oral microbiome.

1 Like

Looking at this further quite a few of these seem to be pathogens (or at least up to a point or moreso beyond a point).

Kingella kingae causes endocarditis in children. (Kingella is another one which seems to be nitrate-reducing)
Campylobacter causes diarrhoea
Neisseria causes meningitis
Actinomycota can cause gum disease
Fusobacterium can cause ulcerative colitis
Leptotrichia don’t seem to have such a bad rep although they can be invasive where people have immunosuppression.
Haemophilus seem to be quite common in the upper respiratory tract and seems to be recognised as part of the salivary microbiome.
Rothia is also one which is not necessarily as bad.
Granulicatela is a “commensal” for the mouth, but can cause havoc.

I think the conclusion is all of them can cause problems in the wrong place, but some are more likely to be present in the salivary glands without causing difficulties (and whilst reducing nitrate).

Wikipedia says:

Unlike the uterine, placental and vaginal microbiomes, the types of organisms in the salivary microbiota remain relatively constant. There is no difference between populations of microbes of based upon gender, age, diet, obesity, alcohol intake, race, or tobacco use.[3] The salivary microbiome characteristically remains stable over a lifetime.[4] One study suggests sharing an environment (e.g., living together) may influence the salivary microbiome more than genetic components.[5] Porphyromonas, Solobacterium, Haemophilus, Corynebacterium, Cellulosimicrobium, Streptococcus and Campylobacter are some of the genera found in the saliva.[6]

We do have a form of shortlist here: Haemophilus and Campylobacter

The first interesting question is to find out what tests there are for what is any one person’s salivary microbiome. Obviously people do at times share their salivary microbiomes.

Well there are some people offering tests:

1 Like

Fascinating topic. Lustgarten does a pretty good job on this here:

I nearly tried Bristle, he gives a discount link for them:

He lives on veg, so really didn’t need the nitrate. It might well work for me. I’m still thinking about it.

Good info. I understand the oral biome to be like the gut biome in the way a diverse set of bugs is best for controlling the bad bugs. The way to a healthy microbiome in all environments is to not kill them off with chemicals or a lack of food (that they eat). Stop using as much as possible : antibiotics, antiseptic mouthwash, fluoride toothpaste, preservatives in food, etc. and eat a variety of phytonutrients and fibers and resistant starches that they eat.

Also use nitrite test strips to see if your have nitrates in your saliva and the right bugs to convert to nitrite. If not, sort it out; you are doing something to break the system.

1 Like

The point, however, about the papers I linked to above is that nitrate gets to the salivary glands via the blood stream. Obviously some of the product could come back via the oesophagus, but it can also go via the salivary glands back into the blood stream (particularly if not salivating). Hence you would not necessarily be fully able to test for this from saliva although it would give a guide.

1 Like