Decided to continue through 2nd period with same protocol (6 weeks at 4mg and 2 week washout) and then retest just to rule things out. Will post when completed. Thanks!
1 Like
@Basil_Dev - I am on my 5th month which is a rookie on this site:) I did have a break when I got COVID about 6 weeks ago and felt like I took a break when I tried a compounded version of Rapa.
1 Like
@IndigoNaturals - I think you bring up a great point and might be worth a separate thread of why we check labs on Rapa and what people are doing with that information. It would be interesting to see what Dr. Green does with all of the labs he is getting and what adjustments he is making when he gets that information. My guess is that most of the time nothing is done with lab changes like yours and rarely some glucose and or cholesterol control modalities are added. Some of the lab changes we are noticing may not have anything to do with health risks associated with those changes. If I told you that I am using a modality that increases inflammation resulting in muscle soreness and joint pain along with stimulating mTOR, then first response may be stop the modality. If I told you I am talking about exercise then most say that this is acceptable response.
Looking forward to hear more about your journey. I like the concept of a wash out period. I would think our sites longest user of Rapa, @LaraPo, would have some valuable feedback on labs, adjustments based on those labs and washout periods.
1 Like
Don’t think so. Looked at data for 10 years. 109 was the highest I had for triglycerides. My HDL is also very good, while LDL is always abnormally high.
Maybe some people need washout periods and others don’t?
I’ve only been on Rapa for a couple of months. When I get my labs in a couple of months, if I find any problems with triglycerides/LDL/HOMA-IR, I’m not sure what I’ll do.
Adding interventions such as metformin and statins to fix the problem reminds me of the old rhyme about the old lady who swallowed a fly, then swallowed a spider to catch the fly, etc…it just doesn’t sit well with me.
I really don’t want to stop taking rapamycin, so maybe 10 weeks on 8 weeks off like Matt Kaeberlein mentioned in his latest video is an viable option.
1 Like
IndigoNaturals,
I just saw your post. Similar to you, my colleague also experienced an increase in his fasting insulin and drop in his testosterone. More details in this thread:
I hope others will routinely monitor their fasting insulin / HOMA-IR and testosterone levels, and report their results in this forum. It seems that rapamycin can cause a deleterious change in these metabolic parameters.
1 Like
In this study, rapamycin Alone reduced HOMA-IR and inflammation.
Rapamycin/metformin co-treatment normalizes insulin sensitivity and reduces complications of metabolic syndrome in type 2 diabetic mice
5 Likes
Great read, thanks.
I have used a wide variety of rapamycin dosages, generally speaking trying to reach the threshold of undesirable side effects. Maybe I need to define what I think are any undesirable side effects. Actually, it is quite easy: Anything that drives my blood panel results outside of the normal range is undesirable to me.
Quoting Dr. Mikhail V. Blagosklonny:
“I defined anti-aging dose of rapamycin as highest dose that does not yet causes side effects. If significant increase of LDL is viewed as side effects that needs treatment, then dose of rapamycin should be reduced. By definition, so simple. LDL will drop. Nothing else.”
On examining my blood results from the time I started in November 2021 with 5 mg weekly with EVOO I can see that everything looked better at the lower dosage.
I have not been happy with my blood panel results on the higher dosages that I am taking now.
Before I get my next blood panels, I am going to go back to the 5 mg/weekly dose and see if that improves my results.
Also, I guess it’s best to stick with metformin. I have been on and off again with metformin.
From the article you cited::
“Although broad use of rapamycin as a generalized antiaging treatment has been contraindicated by its immunosuppressive and hyperglycemic effects, recent research indicates that immunosuppressive effects can be attenuated, and potentially reversed, by alternate treatment schedules and lower doses than used for organ transplantation”
"This study demonstrates that the hyperglycemic effects of rapamycin can be managed with antihyperglycemic co-treatments such as metformin and that the benefits of rapamycin are enhanced by such co-treatment."
1 Like
I am up and down about my feelings on dosing. I’m sort of in the middle now at about 6-8 mg’s per week.
I’m thinking that walking right after meals and the soleus push-ups will make meds like metformin and acarbose unnecessary while avoiding any known and potential side effects.
1 Like
I’m thinking that it is true for smb who’s not on Rapa and who wants to avoid T2D and stay overall healthy. With Rapa it seems not enough. I’ve been trying very hard (diet, 0 sugar, 0 deserts, exercising 7/7, walking after meals, etc) and my FG is always borderline. Feel like I need a little push with Metformin, may be a pulse low doze when I take Rapa.
1 Like
Metformin has a whole laundry list of beneficial effects as been discussed elsewhere in the forums. I take it for these other benefits not because it lowers my blood glucose.
I only waver because of my age and I don’t want to take the edge off of the resistance training I do. It wasn’t until I reached age 80 that I started to weigh the benefits against possible inhibition of muscle gain. My personal recommendation, and not medical advice, to anyone under ~75, you ought to be taking it.
1 Like
I taper my Metformin usage and that seems to work best. I take 1 g on the day I take Rapa and for the next two days. Then I go down to 500 mg for 2 days. Then I stop taking Metformin the last two days. I do this because my body tells me I am taking too much Metformin later on in the week. (I get feelings of hypoglycemia)
1 Like
I had the precise same response, A1C went up, liver enzymes when up and TRCLY went up. 6mg weekly was the dose.
“I had the precise same response, A1C went up, liver enzymes when up and TRCLY went up. 6mg weekly was the dose.”
Sorry if you mentioned, but how long have you taken Rapamycin? Did these changes in blood markers correct itself with time, or not at all? Thanks.
It was my first 8 week course. Values have begun to go back to baseline. I have not resumed rap.
1 Like
Update. So spouse who is in tail-end of perimenopause (originally, pretty brutal which set us on the research course) started noticing hot flashes again after 2nd course (6 weeks on/ 2 weeks off). Rap definitely suppresses steroidal hormones so she’s going to take a break. It’s hit her sleep quite a bit which is very reminescent of early peri…despite a healthy HRT bioidental regiment. Feels more estradiol than progesterone but either way, steroids are too important to mess with. may wait a month and try a really subdued regiment (1 week on/3 weeks off or variant). I’ll prob do the same just to get on schedule. Testing in 2 months to see effects. It will be interesting to see if metrics (metabolic, etc) are affected at very low levels. Will report back.
What time of day did she take the rapamycin? I find I can’t sleep if I take it in the afternoon/evening. But I’m fine if I take it in the morning.
The study that rivasp12 linked certainly supports combining Metformin with Rapamycin. The Metformin helps mitigate the negative impacts of rapamycin on hypoglycemia and the rapamycin improves the uptake of Metformin.
This study demonstrates that the hyperglycemic effects of rapamycin can be managed with antihyperglycemic co-treatments such as metformin, and that the benefits of rapamycin are enhanced by such co-treatment.
1 Like
morning. Interestingly, no sleep issues for first session (6 weeks). Kicked up week 3 of 2nd session. About 3 days after 4mg rap. Just wide awake till about 1am. Totally reminiscent of hormone flux/loss during peri. I’m not seeing any of this. Some women are much more dependent on hormones…about 25% of those entering per have debilitating effects. Almost wonder if rap is partially “reversing” peri and bringing ovarian function back online. Hot flashes have been gone for months now.
2 Likes
We already take met (750)…for about 2-3 years now. And berberine.