I just want to ask a simple question (I don’t need an answer, just think about it). Are you going to buy whatever is within your means to increase your life/health span? I am. So, at what income level do we say ‘we’re going to do it, but you can’t’?
Many are against the rich and them getting more rich. But the fact is that without the rich some of the larger studies and innovations may never take place. Look at the Metformin trial going on, the government didn’t take an immediate shine to it happening as they didn’t see aging as a disease. The bottom line is usually (not 100% of the time, but usually) to get big dollars it has to show how it’s going to make big dollars.
And why don’t people look at the other side? The rich, as a subgroup, are the largest consumer of anti-depressants. I don’t see big pharma denying sales to them because they’re such bad people. They take the money when it suits them and then poo-poo the rich when it makes great press. I would also bet that if any one of us found a personal supplement regimen that was pure gold, and a billionaire offered to back us to bring it to the public, we would accept the offer. If I’m wrong about that I accept it, but I don’t think I am.
I’m not rich by any means, but I wouldn’t turn down the opportunity to be so. On top of that, if I did get rich bringing an incredible new supplement regimen to market, I sure wouldn’t want anyone saying I couldn’t take it.
Don’t beat me up, it’s just my two cents which, admittedly, may only be worth one cent.
Do you think that if a life-extending drug demonstrated strong evidence that it would extend the typical human life by 10 or 15 years, it should be covered by health insurance?
If an anti-cancer drug that increases the lifespan of cancer patients by 3 to 5 years is covered by health insurance, why should it be covered by health insurance vs. life extension drug for “healthy” people not be covered when it provides equal or better lifespan increases?
I suspect that if we could live till 200 or more yrs if we are healthy, that might be OK, but an ever-increasing share of the world’s money will become devoted to clinging onto just a few more years of existence. Ultimately we must face the fear of death and realize that it’s not “The End”, but instead a transition to a different state of matter, energy, etc. whatever you believe. When we come to the end of our 200-300 yrs of existence, we will still be facing the same question; shall I keep going on? and it’s also OK to not go the whole distance as well.
On 23 January 1923, Banting, Collip and Best were awarded U.S. patents on insulin and the method used to make it. They all sold these patents to the University of Toronto for $1 each. Banting famously said, “Insulin does not belong to me, it belongs to the world.” He wanted everyone who needed it to have access to it.
Source:
At some point you have to wonder if the scientists doing all the basic science and academic research that will lead to longevity therapies, might get a little pissed off if they can’t afford the treatments their research ultimately results in (for themselves, their parents, their kids, etc.). I would not be surprised to see some “leakage” of IP (intellectual property) into the broader biohacker community from academics and corporate researchers who want more people to benefit from this science.
Their are people that do not have insurance CAN NOT afford the cost of purchasing Insulin in the US. And when some tried to go to Canada to purchase these people where given a hard time to bring back the product to the US.
Forum members do this now with purchasing compound’s.
People that known{of future compound’s] will do the same and or self manufacture.
To the question "should Insurance Company pay for “life-extending drug demonstrated strong evidence that it would extend the typical human life”…
Yes, they should.
The fact is insurance is a business and they do not like paying money out. Like a Bank…
As Buffett would point out, since 2000, 52% of companies in the Fortune 500 have either gone bankrupt, been acquired or ceased to exist. As Buffett would point out, you can’t bet on a company 30 years into the future. Japan dominated the list of top companies in the '80s but they’re pretty spare in those lists today. Tech is becoming increasingly disruptive. Plus, there’s a flippancy of many of them. They didn’t need the discipline to grow over a longer period of time to the same size, like companies that did so decades ago. Ellison’s submissiveness here is striking: Elon Musk’s Texts Shatter the Myth of the Tech Genius - The Atlantic
Sure, some will be with us still, but I’m not one to say, “I would rather die than live if it means they get to live too.”
Also, if they know they’re going to live a really long time, maybe they’ll care more about the shape of the Earth 100 years from now, and worry that the polluting or exploitation they engage in could be illegal in the future and make their assets unsustainable.
Are we talking an extension of lifespan or healthspan? Right now the problem is too many people are living longer but are not “living” longer. Not to be cruel, but what’s the point of extending the lifespan of someone who is bedridden/
I think its bullish for long-termism. Much more likely that the ultrawealthy will be better stewards of civilization if they believe they could live much longer.
Thanks Admin, interesting topic. BUT the info I’ve gotten through health channels and via media friends has always been; “Medically; the curse of being famous getting the worst out comes…”. Meaning the famous hook up with high roller (allopathic, std of care) Drs and get line-jumped onto some fadish and uber expensive experimental treatment, skipping over (in my guessing) higher efficacy treatments. Just pick a list of the famous who died from cancer and dig into their treatment plans. “fruit-o-vore” ?? WTF!
Anyway, my first thought reading this title is, well maybe, just maybe some trickle down helps to us citzen-scientists self experimentors. N of 2 works for me.
Also ponder this; a side benefit given the curse of being famous may be in play we may benefit from learning what does NOT work faster. :-\
I’ve encountered this question before because I do stem cell therapy (autologous, for now) and it’s fairly expensive. When I first started doing these procedures, almost ten years ago, I was discussing the price with a friend of mine and he said, “I’m very happy for all those rich people to go first and be the guinea pigs. If it works and isn’t dangerous, the rest of us will benefit down the line.”
Tacking on side a comment; Personally we use our funds in addition to these compounds but also to go to health conferences around the co. Last was Symposium of Metabolic Health in Boca FL, “Low Carb”, prior MHS-2022 in Sant Barbara, prior Ancestral Health in LA; skimming off commonalities
Low/no carb = low insulin = low inflammation = low disease and aging state
Exercise, even just 20min 3x a week to keep the muscles, the largest glucose sink organs, sinking glucose and beat back sarcopenia. Sarcopenia is a big, maybe #1 at reducing quality of life.
Many including us are carnivore and zero talk of acidosis, zero. No talk of uric acid, none. If concerned test, theres test strips and meters its cheap. We do, zero problems.
Wear CGMs at least for a month or 2.
carbs are addictive. Last conf, SMH, 1.5 days where on addictive behaviors re carbs. If you can’t leave fruit (etc) alone there may be a problem especially if you are taking one of the glucose drugs so you can still eat carbs. Just the messenger.
Oxalates are the new (known for 80 yrs and burried) problem if you are eating lots of vegetables; spinach, nuts, nut milks!!! Look into symptoms of oxalate poisoning and look at your diet. Reading a book; Toxic Superfoods.
Exogenous ketones (a newer adjunevent) BHB salts; Ca BHB, Na BHB. All buyable on amazon.
Test with the keto mojo glucose / ketone meter. We are tripping over those devices around here.
Ketosis, ketones 1.0++ = neuro plasticity and re-growth, brain repair, brain improvement, alzymers reduction!!! many new studies on ketogenic 2.0++ reversing alzymers (type 3 diabetes)
A general term; “hormesis” many protocols; what doesn’t killl you makes you stronger: sauna, IR sauna, extreme heat, ice baths, even just cold shower. The LED/NIR maybe hermetic at least a stimulation channel. Brushing ones scalp to retain hair; hormesis. AHS-2022 had a very good hormesis speaker, lots of “challenge” tactics that results in resilience…
Sadly and I guess good news-wise;
No zillion dollar magic pill(s); Exercise but not nut-case. 3x a week 20min of HIT and weights. Just 20 min big benefit. Minimum effective dose is lower then prior said.
Diet diet diet, keep the carbs down, glucose down, insulin down, and protein up; said; 1.5-1.7gm / Kg = 100g/daily if 170#. DOH thats alot of protein. This is from credible researchers. Sarcopenia, BRAIN health needs this much protein as we >>60yro.
Sleep sleep sleep, use an ora ring etc. Address sleep apnia!!! 15yrs life span swing!
Move every few hours; get up and walk around the room/house/block.
New stuff;
PEMF/Magnetic field mats, head bands etc. Which devices and which technology?
Light; LED, IR, NIR, RED devices. Better known now; has efficacy. This should be above and not in new stuff.
EWOT or variations, add in hypoxia (VO2 <90 into the 80’s then switch to 95% 02 - var-oxia) = angiogenesis in the brain and etc. = good for mental clarity and extension of useful brain span.
Compounds; We / here mainly think of whats new here. But its a fraction of whats efficacious in slowing aging in my learning. And inspite of headlines I’m pretty sure the whole protocol will include the above and only a few new compounds.
There’s alot more (above as a sample) going on and currently purchasable and doable and alot is not expensive. The most expensive above is a soft sided hyperbaric ranges from $4k to $7k. Used half that. Excersize = free, protocols for better sleep can be free…
The wealthy have always had the best medical and cosmetic treatments and have tended, if not to live longer but healthier and better looking than the less wealthy. Maybe if the Bezos of the world like longer, maybe they will gain wisdom and do good for the rest of society - maybe who knows, maybe not all bad. Look what Bill Gates has done. I can argue some against philanthropies doing what the government should be doing with the taxes levied against the billionaires, but that is another story.
The richest people already benefit a whole lot from life extension. Not just billionaires, but high-income earners.
I don’t mind if Bezos funded team somehow manages to solve death in his lifetime (highly unlikely) - if it expands the pie for everyone and he reinvests his money in non-net negative social impact type of projects or businesses.
The real issue is never whether there exists some economic inequality or not - I could care less if Bezos becomes a decatrillionaire - it’s whether social mobility, economic opportunity, and increase in healthspan (which most likely would increase with lifespan extension) are available to the general populace.
I’ll also mention ultra rich people have a problem too called VIP medicine:
I’ve literally seen one of the possible harmful scenarios happen, especially with the yes-man entourage of “VIPs” who don’t know what they’re talking about when advising the “VIP”:
“A VIP may insist on the senior-most specialist at an academic institution or teaching hospital—the chair of the department of medicine, or of surgery, for instance. But the senior-most, or most eminent, caregiver is not necessarily the most skilled at performing a given procedure. Such an individual may be out of practice, or no longer up-to-date, and the “no name” subordinate may actually be much more skilled.”
It could be covered by insurance if it’s low cost enough and “medically necessary”. A simple look at PCSK9i coverage will be obvious. If “aging” is a disease then it may be considered “medically necessary”.
For example, nutritional counseling is usually covered. Also Medicare will probably cover something if the $/QALY is well worth it or it is proven to delay dementia onset.
Cosmetic treatments that work highly effectively are actually fairly cheap and do not require as much money as people think. I also see family of billionaires spend so much on useless cosmetic procedures.
Most of the expensive stuff they sell in say Ulta or Sephora is marketing hype to elevate brand effects for pricing power. A lot of procedures don’t really do much in terms of $/effect. Botox is actually fairly cheap if you look at $/month, assuming most effective dosing. For me that is low dose every 6 months. There are only a few really expensive procedures that are at best marginal. A lot of other ones are just flushing money down the drain.
These projects delve into important science — the slow march toward death is something we all have in common — but some question whether this quest to defeat mortality is more hubris than anything else.
Even Bill Gates, when asked about life-extension and immortality projects in a Reddit AMA, weighed in: “It seems pretty egocentric while we still have malaria and TB for rich people to fund things so they can live longer.” (He did add: “It would be nice to live longer, though, I admit.”)
