…but also no idea what these people were taking. Huge doses of testosterone, growth hormone, synthetic anabolic steroids, stimulants, etc?
If a person keeps androgen stimulation on the higher end with testosterone supplementation only, keeps lipids and blood pressure and inflammation low, gets lots of exercise and takes potential anti-aging compounds, can they have their cake and eat it too?
I am in the camp that over 1000 isn’t something I would bet on being good for longevity. I do know a surgeon that runs 1200-1300. But, for the individual, they may not care. A bit dangerous to think about on a population basis for sure.
It seems unlikely that a natural 600 is at all the same as a supplemented 600. The supplemented does not vary in the same pattern as natural - a natural 600 is peak of the day where a supplemented 600 is not. This matters for everything of course - effect and longevity.
Hopefully, someone out there is collecting data but I doubt it. Would be nice to see longevity data after 20 years with different doses and schedules. Maybe the once a weekers will do better as they are cycling up and down.
I’m naturally 500 with high fsh and lh at 55yo. I may start some because YOLO and it looks like I am going to fall soon anyway. I am a bit curious how someone who is 62 and on T lifting and doesn’t injure themselves - I am still learning to hold back as I am nursing 2 areas currently - shoulder and back.
I don’t know what bodybuilders check for, but aren’t you supposed to measure hematocrit as well? Perhaps cardiac MRI periodically to check for heart enlargement or is that just with growth hormone? No idea.
When you need a lot of substantive counter-measures of other factors you might have just discovered an anti-longevity drug at a specific dose. A longevity drug tend to affect a lot of factors in a net general beneficial way. They are general purpose medicines in some sense. The effects might also occur in things you can’t measure. If many negative effects that come online generalize equally to non-measurable negative effects at an increasing dose is the problem. If that generalization is the case it might not be enough to control what you can measure. So maybe then it’s important drugs at a specific dosage don’t have multiple negative effects that have to be controlled in the first place? This doesn’t mean such a drug on a large enough dose doesn’t have a place for treating specific conditions with net benefit on risk vs. reward.
Yes, one has to monitor hematocrit for sure, and ideally IMO do an echocardiogram once/year. Angiotensin receptor blockers can help to block or even reverse left ventricular hypertrophy, as can SGLT2 inhibitors (although SGLT2i drugs also increase hematocrit, so have to be careful there). I reversed my LVH in the presence of higher-range testosterone levels per recent echocardiogram (was mild LVH 2 years ago).
You’re probably right but I think other healthy longevity habits would easily offset a long term slightly elevated testosterone.
In my anecdotal experience, my dose of testosterone has had no impact on my own personal hematocrit. Raising/lowering the does does nothing for some reason. When I first started it, I didn’t really get much of a large increase but over time, it kept going up. Jardiance further elevated it a little bit.
David wrote: I am a bit curious how someone who is 62 and on T lifting and doesn’t injure themselves - I am still learning to hold back as I am nursing 2 areas currently - shoulder and back."
How about almost 68? Past 6-years on T and never injured once.
Weights have gone up significantly too. Chest Flys 30 in a set at 190 pounds - 3 sets. Lat pull downs 30 in a set at 175 pounds - 3 sets . 2 sets of 20 pull ups. And, such. Workout nonstop 1 hour and 15 minutes, every other day. All machines… but more or equal to the mid-20 year old medical students working💪out.
Never even think about injuries tbh.
RapAdmin,
Thanks for this detailed and important post on testosterone. I prescribe a lot of replacement testosterone dosing for my Long Covid and ME/CFS patients, male and female, based on free testo levels. Your AI derived breakdown is hugely informative and I will share with patients if interested.
Can you share what your prompts are to generate this format when you ask AI to review a paper and which AI tool you are using.
Thanks.
See this prompt discussion thread here: Using AI for Health and Longevity and Research - Your Favorite Prompts
I use Google Gemini Pro. I’ll post the most recent prompt I’m using here, but its always changing, suggestions for improvements are always welcome: See here: Using AI for Health and Longevity and Research - Your Favorite Prompts - #87 by RapAdmin
Interesting - so you used a an angiotensin receptor blocker and felt that it reversed your LVH alone? Am I following that correctly? Or were there a bunch of changes that you feel contributed to this?
I was also taking empagliflozin for most of that time (recently stopped in order to get hematocrit under control). I just started an ARB about 6 months ago (first irbesartan and now telmisartan 80mg QD). So the LVH reversed despite high testosterone (which I wasn’t even taking at baseline) significantly increased weight training and minimal cardio, all of which would have been expected to exacerbate LVH.
It looks like the combo of SGLT2I and ARB is an amazing 1-2 punch for LVH, but the hematocrit elevation from SGLT2I and testosterone should be taken very seriously. See my post in the SGLT2 thread on a new study.
So… I should take telmisartan with my eventual TRT? I’ve more or less decided to hop on it, for quality of life reasons if nothing else.